Sri Prabhuji & Andrew Cohen_Spiritual Dialogue_Eng_Talk1_20Dec2018

my pronounce to all of my duties divine light of the self I welcome one and all some of you have gathered here some of you have joined over the internet I welcome all of you to this today's beautiful evening satsang with the shri Andrew cohan we have the privilege of having her we undergo him with us he is one person were spent a lot of effort time and in a delicate way for exploring various aspects of enlightenment he has met interviewed talk to many people all over the world to understand the nature of indictment he founded a magazine called what is enlightenment so I can say he is a he has a encyclopedic knowledge of enlightenment both width and the depth so it is time for us to eat his head and find out and get the questions which are of forgiveness try to understand the subject of enlightenment let us not get into too much diversify because there are so many varieties of mechanisms methods systems but whatever whatever we want to whatever subject we are taking let us get into the depth the idea is to go deeper rather than wider you make it easily defocus by many aspects but let us try to focus and start get drill deeper in the subject of enlightenment is that okay sir that's wonderful okay so the way I would like this session to be yes sir let me you can use the idea second so on behalf of a light of Sun foundation a few things and we welcome 300 when work arrays subsonic so the way it will proceed is I will take up a topic you a slight background about it then I would request and you and to give his views on that then any questions from audience related to that topic we'll take a drill deeper into our understanding is that total for all of you is that okay very good okay so let us take a per the first topic enlightenment enlightenment is light light and what ignorance is the darkness ignorance about my own nature self and ignorance about the world dish together is what we call as darkness getting a light light of wisdom into the into for this self about itself and about the nature of the world is what I understand by the world enlightenment and why do we need that is we go through struggle in life stripe in life all of us are struggling there's a stress in life the stress comes out of the duality seeing the difference the experience of duality causes stress in us this search for enlightenment from Ages used to find out how we can overcome distress in life can we be free from stress and strife in life and have a meaningful light on this so that requires our sages found out that the duality is the cause duality is the problem and fortunately the duality is not a reality duality is a illusion of religion so if you are able to understand overcome the duality in our in our life the life will be will experience a freedom both mental emotional and intellectual level which will open up our life form a beautiful dimension this is my understanding of an language now I requested Andrew to give your perspective what what exactly you mean by and light will just work the indictment will take up the world our general address next step very good so my understanding of enlightenment is that it's the journey from mortality to immortality from ignorance as you were describing to knowledge so the journey from mortality to immortality is made through the awakening the discovery of the fact that Who I am is not really the small self the separate ego the unique personality was born in a particular time in place in history in time and that unique personal self as a narrative as a story is a historical narrative which is Who I am so the profound awakening and the journey from mortality to immortality is the profound life-changing radical and profound explosive recognition that who I really am is the self with a capital S which is immortal because the self capital else I kept the capital s has never been born it's never entering the stream of time and therefore is never going to die the buddha referred to this self as the deathless of the unborn of the uncreated so this is the deepest dimension of reality and the deepest dimension of the self in his deepest deepest dimension of reality exists prior to the time process so before time before history before the creation of the universe there was only this unborn conceivable trans rational irrational knowing it's free from mind free from anything that's ever happened in time and when the self that sees itself and recognizing self in beliefs believes itself to be a prisoner of time recognizes that in fact it was never a prisoner prisoner of time because he was never born and never entered the stream of time the experience for that for the small self is like being liberated sigh coming out of a small prison and it's a recognition of unimaginable freedom unimaginable joy and imaginable happiness unimaginable contentment it's the freedom from anything that's ever happened anytime this experience can only be experienced it can't be understood with the mind and this releases one from the biological attachment to the body the psychological attachment to the mind the intellectual attachment to thinking deliberates one of the most profound way from the tyranny of being trapped in anything other than an immortal context so that's a brief introduction to my understanding about what enlighten that's all about it is also creative dimension to all this which we'll get into in a minute so thank you yeah so youth is walkable enlightenment as a freedom from the person itself a personal identity which is it imprisoned in time to go beyond recognize its own true nature as self which is capital S which is beyond time beyond space which has never entered into stream of creation exactly so that used there's a freedom now the question comes if that is so so we are speaking of a self which is consonant or rather beyond time and space and into yourself which is which is a prison enough time which apparently is a prisoner of time and space become as person ie and a transcendent I which is which I calls in person life so personal I recognizing the impersonal nature which is beyond time and space and experiencing freedom is called enlightenment that's what if to summarize what what I understood so now this recognition can happen to the mind by the mind using the instrument of mind but for the self okay this who recognizes this is not the mind but recognition happens for the self which is actually born or which is in time domain which thinks it's in time domain the self uses the instrument of mind to recognize this so the recognition requires mind and once the recognition of one's from mind transmit returns in the mind and that state of mind is called no mind this might understand so I would like to understand what do you say about mine to know mind and first is this understanding correct that understanding recognition happens through the mind but for the cells absolutely right so ultimately the knowledge and ignorance has to be attained through the instrument of mind but not for the mind it for the self okay so with this knowledge the self recognizes itself as the impersonal eye so once the recognition happens that is called enlightenment or of freedom so then the mind which becomes mind eh then there is a terminological no mind what exactly you understand by no mind it's very difficult to describe it language okay it's the it's the essence of who we always are nothing before the universe was created before time began mm-hmm it's the deepest dimension of the self it's the deepest dimension of reality itself and it's a it's it's a knowing that's empty of cognition so objectless absolutely objects object list and recognition yes so the no mind there's a all-knowing involves a subject object relationship the objectless knowing this there is no object but recognition of this self by the self is called enlightenment possibly but is it no mind enlighten person leaves in a state of no-mind is no enlightened person to see to say enlightened person is a sort of an oxymoron nor wrong a person who is enlightened he is no more a person but his state of mind is called no mind state so now andrew says it is a it is a it we cannot express it in words typically a mind involves thoughts flowing from the positive future so at one once enlightenment happens the possibility person the man the mind the mind stays in the eternal present which is not a flow but being in the total presence neither past nor future the presence that's possibly one understanding which I have a program like no mine the second understanding of no mind is the mind the conceptualization with mind about the world or forgot itself the drops there's no more concept relation the super in push of the concepts on the world and self both stops for example the concept relation that the world is real drops if conception is that I am a limited body mind in it length drops so the concept generation function stops but the functioning of the mind continues as the body mind as a body man in entity that functioning continues whereas the concept chelation drops this concept raishin is related to something called ego or the personal identity that drops so this is my understanding of no-mind yes I very much agree and then the reason that the dropping that you're describing happens is because with this awakening or this you could we could say it's a sinking into this the depth of the ocean of being from the perspective of the ocean of being nothing has ever happened I think though the universe has never been created thought God has not even begun to think about anything the small self has never been born nothing has ever happened so so from the deepest perspective there's only nothingness and in the nothingness there's a mysterious knowing itself and in the knowing of oneself for these self there's absolute fulfillment in that emptiness this perfect fullness there's absolute perfection and there's no mind because there's no distance know that there is no other there's nothing to know and there's nothing to understand because one is everything already in every single moment but at the same time from the perspective of the part of the self that has been born and has entered the stream of time that is perceived to be existing on the surface of this depth and there is a cognitive process that's that's still continuing but now the cognitive process is happening in the knowledge of the freedom I've been describing so that so that cognitive process is no longer trapped in the ignorant I have been trapped in time or in history but because because there's still access to this cognition the experience of cognition from from this perspective of the freedom of the self his experiences his experience as a kind of marvelous and divine creativity a marvelous and divine aspect for reflection the self the self was able to reflect upon itself using this great gift of the mind that the mind being trapped in relativity so the mind becomes then a friend of the south of the capital s and a very gifted inspired communicator because the mind that becomes a liberated vehicle through which this divine transcendental knowledge can be known it can be transmitted into the realms of the world of time and space and so the mystery and the secret of unconditional profound liberation can be transmitted from it can be transmitted to all sincere seekers who want to learn the secret of freedom of much of liberation and if they're if they're ready if their karma and their has ripened them to the degree that they're ready to here to here to here this truth and also to accept it and ask that we have to be ready to accept it free from fear free from fear and free from doubt if we're ready to receive it then when it's received like it's like a lotus flower opening ourselves like a flower blooming that self falls into the into the mystery of the uncreated in the same way that the communicator has and the self delights in itself yet again and again again and again each time that happens there's a big welcoming infinite welcoming party of one to itself keeps repeating itself so yes the liberated cognition is a wonderful gift of enlightened awareness and I agree with the way you described it here Thanks now coming to use the terminology to terminologies we brought in now enlightenment and liberation so the world enlightenment liberation we use often used together sometimes separately so enlightenment is a recognition of the self nature and nature of the world and recognizing that I am that infinite self I am that consciousness unborn undying worthless deathless infinite consciousness that recognition along with the recognition there's a recognition that the world is just an was an appearance it's not didn't have a substantial reality so along with that a deep freedom comes into picture the freedom from three dimensions I am the body I am the mind I had the intellect as a body I have been doer and subject to loss of karma as a mind I have been subject to ups and downs emotional disturbance of the mind as an intellect I was I was bound by the knowledge and ignorance so these three are you get freedom from these three while you realize your essential nature so this particular aspect of freedom I call it as liberation so my question to Andrew is it gives your understanding or liberation same or you know a different explanation about liberation no I agree with everything you said okay but there's another dimension I want to bring into a role so show which is when the universe was created the universe the world of time when I say the universe I mean the world of time and space the entire creative process all of evolution this creative process diamonds face matter energy life and mind emerge from primordial timeless empty nothingness or being so because this time process because this creative process emerged from timeless formless empty being there in that there's the recognition that the evolving universe the creative process is not separate from and is one with timeless formless empty being which means that time is not separate from timelessness form is not separate from formlessness mind is not separate from no mind the emptiness of being is not separate from the fullness of creation there's a recognition is the profound recognition that they are one and not two if the sink that the singularity the non-dual singularity includes both being and becoming time and timelessness form and formlessness so in this understanding there's a recognition of the fact that the creative process itself that emerged from timeless formless nothing is he's a is a very dynamic and profound expression of the very freedom of timelessness and nothingness that the world itself that the universe itself the entire creative process is a living manifest expression dynamic expression of the freedom of being has infinite creativity and in this recognition which is looking at enlightenment from from from a slightly different angle awakens our understanding and appreciation of what the body is and what its function is what the mind is and what its function is the personality is what its function is what the world is and what its function is what nature is and what its function is and in this recognition there's a similar understanding that Who I am is not the body not the mind nothing about the unique personality or ego it's a recognition that the body mind personality and ego in the evolutionary context our vehicles are empty vehicles through which this divine and creative energy and intelligence gave rise to the creative process and there's a recognition that through this through these two the through this temporary emergence of the body through the temporary emergence of the mind through the temporary emergence of the human unique personality that divine energy and intelligence can awaken to itself can realize itself can recognize itself but most importantly can express itself so in this context the body mind personality and the entire world in the create and the entire creative process our manifest living expressions of divinity inform at the end of the matter and the energy and the life in the mind that a merchant primordial nothingness is nothingness itself in action in and as the entire creative process and so when there's an awakening to this process as spirit incarnate there's the recognition that the entire universe and all the creativity that gives rise to the universe that empowers the universe and that indeed makes it possible possible for us to awaken to the singularity that gave rise to it his divinity itself and in in this in in this desert there's there's a profound recognition of the ultimate non difference between nothing and something between being and becoming between timelessness and time between inconceivable creativity and absolute nothingness itself so in this we also experience a kind of release because they in this there's a release from the resistance of incarnation it's what Sri Aurobindo called the refusal of the aesthetic and in that there's a not only an acceptance of the world and the universe and time and space and the body of the mind and the personality but there's but in the recognition that all of it is God or divinity in and as form we begin to see the play of consciousness and the creative process in a very different way and we begin to see it all as the manifest of the manifestation of God in in us form and a degree to which we recognize that realize that awakened to that know that the expression of our own being begins to become a manifest expression of that truth and this is very liberating and inspiring because it gives us the ultimate reason to exist as the body mind and personality that we already are but now not in ignorance of our true nature but in a divine and exalted recognition of it and then we can then we can not only accept the fact that we exist weekend actually delight in it so I see these are two perspectives that are that are not separate they're complementary they're two different sides as my guru intended two different sides of the same coin yeah beautiful so what you