Suddhakar Thirunagari: Conversations from the Heart - Honouring Andrew Cohen through our stories

Welcome to conversations from the heart honoring Andrew Cohen through our stories. My name is Daniela Bom. I was a student of Andrews for 17 years and for the past nine years I had the privilege of living and working alongside him. This service is a tribute to his life, his teaching, and the evolutionary fire he sparked in so many of us. Through these intimate conversations, we remember not only the man, but the depths of transformation he catalyzed in our lives. May these stories keep his legacy alive, honoring the sacred thread that connects us and allowing his voice to continue resonating through ours. [Music] So, welcome Sudako. Thank you for having this conversation with me about Andrew Cohen. I'm very happy that you agreed to do this and it's the second conversation that I'm having. So, it's very exciting and it's still very new. And yeah, we just want to have a conversation about your experience with Andrew and uh probably start with the question, how did you meet Andrew? And what was it that captivated you? What was it that kept you in contact with him? And uh yeah, if you just want to tell your story about him and you Namaste Daniela. It's it's my pleasure uh speaking to you. Uh I think it's a it's a long journey. I had to go I had to I had to go back you know to so many years back like uh maybe 30 years back I met Andrew uh in Rashanti Svasa in one of the conferences. He gave a talk. He was one of the invited speakers and that was the time like you know the science versus spirituality was just emerging. So in that you know he he was like you know a mystic speaking from his own experience not speaking from any traditional or anything out of his own awakening he started speaking and you know uh my journey into spirituality started little early like uh in 1988 it started but when I met and when I when I heard Andrew speaking some something triggered within me like you know exactly like you know he's just speaking to me like you know to my own experience but it was not very clear to me I had some experience but I don't know how to uh contemplate or you know understand and it was very difficult in India to go to a guru and you know speak to them you know directly about your experience I was quite young at that time maybe there may be some teachers but I don't know but this Andrew's talk gave me something uh something you uh deeply touched my heart at that time by I'm not a great intellectual I'm very innocent and the way he was speaking I couldn't grasp everything but um definitely that I I recognize that there is something you know definitely I need to be in touch with you know his teachings and all that so it's a long journey like 30 years but ever since I'm in touch with Andrew or his teachings I attended couple of retreats so it's going on like That that's interesting that it it was like uh 1995 something like this like very early on when he was teaching. Yes. And do you remember what he was talking about in the conference? You you say he speak spoke directly from experience. Do you remember it he was was he talking about liberation? Was this what Yeah. struck a cord? It was on Yeah. It was about you know enlightenment but at the time it was moksha foundation. Yeah. Yeah. And he spoke about uh the and you know he responded to some of the questions and he spoke about you know what is enlightenment and uh fundamentally what stuck me is like you know when he explained that uh right relationship to the thought wrong relationship to the thought no relationship to the thought. So my struggle was like I had that you know no relationship to the thought was you know very much there and you know a taste of the consciousness was there but the right relationship to the thought was missing that was you know you know that created some kind of a what you call a suffocation within myself like you know and uh with you know open eyes how can you be in the in that you know freedom in that freedom like you know you can live that uh the the freedom that you discovered within yourself the absolute but in the waking state when you are living and interacting with the people interacting with the world around you. So that's where the right relationship to the thought it was like you know a laser beam that went into my heart like you know yes this is it like you know something triggered within myself about that particular aspect that when he spoke about so I was really impressed and you know after that I enrolled myself to you know retreat in Rishies it was two weeks retreat and there you know I I I really that was the first time like you know it's a big gathering more than 200 people we were in silence completely and uh I had lot of experiences there and uh the right relationship the thought I I could able to understand you know how to inquire how to how to contemplate so that that's a that's a big one like you know it's a big breakthrough in my spiritual journey I can say that's why I'm ever grateful to Andrew uh after that it's like a completely ongoing journey Yeah, that that's very interesting to me to hear that because what I hear you say this right relationship to to thought later was probably expounded in his teaching to a right relationship to life or or to the awakening to becoming. How do I how do I live and awaken life? not only by retreating from from life and and going in meditation but but to live it in in in our so-called daily lives. Yeah. So, and this right relationship to thought, it sounds to me this was the beginning of of his becoming teaching of of uh helping people to understand what it means to wake up and then stay awake in in how we live our lives and what what does it mean to have the right relationship to life? Yeah. And to our own thoughts. Yeah. Yeah. the the thing is like you know uh as far as I'm concerned like uh when you have an experience of the consciousness the pure consciousness but you know once you everything looks beautiful there is nothing wrong everything is perfect and you know it's beautiful but the moment you wake up and you know start interacting that's where the real challenge comes exactly so in that yeah that challenge was addressed by Andrew very much you know I feel like you know his his uh passion towards you know making that uh available to everyone. You know, I think uh he he started questioning many of the things uh in tradition also we have this thing like you know it is not that experience that liberates you it is the wisdom that liberates you. It is the understanding that liberates you. So understanding about who I am fundamentally that understanding that that uh that wisdom that that becomes the context to you know face the world and I can I can organize myself I can you know discipline myself I have to do many things after that actually that is not that is the beginning of the spiritual journey it is not the end actually that is the real journey starts and it's a big challenge you know at times I felt like can I uh can I you go to that state of the perfection like you know whatever that Andrew was you know speaking about and looking at his personality and looking at the way he was living his life and a living example so you know in in a way there was a fear you know in a part of me there was little fear that you know can I do that one can I go to that state the other side is like you know there is a possibility like okay that's what it is that's the meaning of the life and you know if you have that access then it is the responsibility to move in that direction. So that helped me a lot. Yeah, there are so many you know ups and downs and speed breakers and everything but that inspiration and you know that guidance helped me to whatever I am today in this chaotic world. Mhm. So then I think you know yeah the the the right relationship to the thoughts slowly evolved into what as you said like it's being and becoming you know then later everything was evolved like you know everything started evolving you know in his teachings and you know meditation became very simple very simple like in that context you know otherwise meditation has become like a pure you know people who are looking for some kind of an experience yeah experience is needed it but that is not the the only thing that there is much more to that one. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And I I just wanted to uh comment on what you said a second ago about wanting to live up to the to the perfection of what you saw. I found it very interesting in the last years when Andrew was teaching and when he was speaking about our potential for liberation, he always said you need two things. You need to believe that it's possible and make it your priority. You you want to be liberated. And the second one I found so poignant, he said, "And you need to believe you're worthy of enlightenment, of liberation." And that had a a big impact on many people like striving for perfection, but not shying away from believing that that we are worthy of it because everybody is. Everybody is is worthy of of of liberation if we believe we we are. Yeah. So I I find found that a very beautiful uh also twist in his teaching that that he put so much emphasis of of our worthiness on on the believing in ourselves that that we that we can we can discover the liberation that is always already there. Yeah. So the potential like you know whenever uh I look at him or whenever I I heard him speaking uh it was always spontaneous you know he was always spontaneous and it was always something new to understand and the energy was so fresh and lively and I never you know experienced that kind of committed people you know in my journey of spirituality like you know the way everything was organized and the people so committedly coming together and uh exploring this new new you know I don't say it's a new but maybe we were discovering something new all the time discovering I I I never know the inquiry part you know everybody said that you know you have to contemplate and you have to inquire but I I never had any clue to how to inquire how to contemplate contemplation is not just thinking like you know it requires a particular kind of you know uh discipline a particular kind of you know what you call um uh mostly a discipline and a a a little guidance from within yourself then you know you discover it is it is an inquiry it is not just you know throwing out you know some some thoughts that whatever I get in my mind it's not like that the quality is entirely different that quality is something really beautiful and uh the way you know it it unfolded within myself so many things like you know so many things that I needed to understand. They were just revealed. They were just revealed. Whenever I you know I got those kind of revelations I was literally thrilled you know thrilled and you know there is a joy and there is a beauty and you know there is so much of you know freedom and u there is uh a meaning a purpose to my life you know in that direction that that's the spiritual journey and it was it was really you know you know very fascinating and I'm not exaggerating because I'm not a great intellectual I'm not studied so much. I'm not an academician. But to a lay man, a simple person also if we can have that innocence and the surrender and you know go in that direction like you know whatever that it is guiding and follow that you know the guru you know one who is already in that path and you know guiding. See the whole consciousness is speaking through that you know teacher that that guru and everybody is listening and you know it is like a you know uh it reveals a lot actually in the presence itself it reveals a lot and I enjoyed presence I really enjoyed his presence the presence was so captivating so alive as if that you know the whole consciousness I can feel with open eyes you don't need a samadi. Yeah, I know. Don't need a samadi to experience that collectively like there are moments you know maybe that not the complete two hours but there are maximum a lot of moments like you know maybe for a for a uninterrupted minutes of you know togetherness with open eyes that stillness and something speaking and everybody is just listening not with the mind with something else. Those are the beautiful moments. Those are something extraordinary. Extraordinary I really enjoyed and you know you don't need to remember anything. You just be there in that presence that fragrance the fragrance will you know touch and the fragrance will you know spread to everyone. Yeah. Yeah. No that's beautifully described. Beautifully described. How how was your uh relationship with the community around Andrew? How how did you perceive the community? Did you make friends? How was it to be part of a community? Yeah. So I know I'm I don't know whether I'm fortunate or unfortunate. I don't know. But at the time the face was there like you know friends of Andrew Cohen uh that something was there. No face. It was face. It's called face. So yeah. So that internet also was not very popular at the time in India and I was also not using the tech you know this internet and all those things. I was mostly living in India and doing my own little things but I'm in touch with some of the seniors whenever they are in India or you know I used to visit the rishikes center those things but I was not a formal student you know in the in the in the community but I was in touch with the seniors definitely those who are uh you know leading here and whenever Andrew is here in India I made sure that you know I met him I traveled with him I attended all the retreats you know wherever you know whenever happened in India and I'm fortunate to get the you know invitation you know to attend uh one in the France and one in the America in the Boston also but unfortunately I didn't got the visa so I couldn't attend but ultimately I got one visa to Italy uh after it became evolutionary enlightenment which was a big gathering more than 200 people for 21 days it was something great like you know I had that you know uh fortune to be in that community and the second part was like more like engaged like you know the subjective thing like you know the what you call uh collective in the subjective non-duality. Yeah, exactly. Subjective non-duality and the enlightened communication discussions and you know speak the ego. So those things were like you know they are challenging to the ego but uh yes that that really helped uh to discover like you know and I I feel that I can relate to you know many things like you know when the consciousness when people come together I feel you know for not not expecting anything in return and just being there their presence the consciousness speaks you know through anybody and you know and I I can relate to that okay I was just thinking about that and somebody else picks that that means that the oneness is there with with you know with the body and mind and you know not meditating but it's it's a meditation it's it's more than a meditation. So that non non non-dual subjective you know thing was like uh yeah that that really helped me a lot to discuss and you know engage with the other seekers where sometimes I can take a pause or sometimes I can participate and I can assimilate you know when somebody is speaking something unknown emerges you know suddenly and it is it is beneficial to everyone it's beneficial to everyone nobody can claim that it's mine No, no, exactly. Because it comes from a from a deepest part where where we all are one. It's it comes from the oneness that connects us. That's that what is what makes this practice so so beautiful and so powerful. I want to come back to Yeah. Yeah. I the thoughts are just coming. Another thing that I was very much moved by Andrew's teachings is like you know uh the the way he you know describes the way he uses the words and you know frames certain things like you know there are something extraordinary to give an example the way he simplified the whole meditation aspect was something amazing. I really loved that one one you know like the way he evolved that particular phrases also like in the beginning we have four phrases later on it became only one sentence even that one sentence can reveal it can it can put somebody who is really interested into meditative state. Mhm. So the way he simplified the whole process like whole uh teaching like whole spiritual thing the nandwell see the nandwell is a very tricky thing like you know it it looks like you know you understand and suddenly you are you fall off like you know it's it's because it's it has two sides like you know so the one side is easy but the other side is the like you know to it takes real time to digest and understand all those things. So the later part of and it always and it always stays a mystery. No, like yes, I agree with you. It's it's a it's a mystery that you that we can kind of touch into have an experience but it it's never fully revealed in a way because it's it's too big to grow. Yeah. That's why he says like you know enlightenment is a secret. You know from the Indian perspective also if you look at Gita it says like Bhagat Gita also says that it's called you know uh good is a secret means it's not exactly secret but it is beyond the comprehension of the mind you know exactly the mind cannot comprehend you know the moment I say that I know it's difficult like you know what you know is gone it's already gone only thing is that you you can understand what it is you can understand the quality of it and you know then you You you use that uh understanding to live in this world with the detachment untouched and uh you know when you're going through tough times and challenges that really helps a lot that that really helped me in my own life because life is life is having so many challenges in in everybody's life in their own way. Yeah, I I agree with you. And and even now, s doctor, I I'm pretty sure you feel the same. In the midst of the grief about Andrew's passing, which is only two and a half weeks back, I still am strongly connected to to the liberation that he that he has uh allowed us to access and and it's it's right there. It he he is right there and and the liberation is right there. And in the midst of of all of this, the grief is also there and the sadness and and uh the missing him a lot. But it's it's all true at the same time also in a in a non-dual way that is hard to describe but but it's real. Yeah. I feel that you know his physical presence you know I'm missing but every day like you know he he is there like you know the teachings are there they are very much alive because they they they never be outdated because that is the reality that is the truth like you know yeah exactly it is eternal it is eternal but the thing is like you know when somebody is like you know an enlightened being physically you know present then you know it has its own flavor obviously but but even now I feel that you know yeah the grief is there that you know I miss him uh talking to him or you know interacting with him but the the essence of his teachings are guiding me that light is there that light is there and the light will shine much more is my understanding yeah yeah I agree yeah I think it is needed very much now it is needed and the other thing that I feel very strongly like you know when um when he's not there physically the light will again shine much more because people can access to that easily because their egos are now at least you know satisfied little bit they're not going to be challenged you know when it is not challenged it is easy to come come to the teachings at least you know so once you assimilate then you understand and you you see the greatness of that individual who has given you that understanding yeah that makes sense I want to come back to something you said uh you were traveling also with Andrew through India and I know that and I know that that you also met other spiritual teachers and gurus in India together with him. Is that right? Can you can you talk a little bit about that? I can imagine that this was very interesting. Yeah. So in the in the conferences like after that you know like uh one Mr. Shastri G was he's no more he's a scholar he's a chemistry professor and he's a scholar he studied vanta and uh he was very impressed by Andrew and you know they used to have a in a small room that you know few people Andrew students and very close people used to sit together and you know discuss and he used to be so thrilled by you know when he's explaining Andrew is speaking from his own experience and he's quoting all the scriptural things like you know from the Indian you know traditional perspective. So they exactly match they exactly matched everything you know exactly matched everything he is a very well-versed uh you know master in Sanskrit and you know he studied and everything that was like you know beautiful I think even Andrew also enjoyed that and he also reaffirmed like you know it's a reaffirmation what he's speaking so I think that's where he loved India and you know there are people like but very few people could you know relate to Andrew from that state of consciousness but when it is a you know retreat yes you can you can easily understand and you know be with him but when he speaks from the the higher state of consciousness it is little difficult for the other people to you know connect to him what he's speaking about but later on people start to understand I think that was the beginning like anything new comes in that new always takes some time for the people to understand and digest so his interaction with so many other teachers also like uh they were they were really good actually they were very happy and they were like you know we met couple of times you know he's ashkam you know we know in Rishies also we met and you know he used to be very loving with Andrew and you know he used to discuss and he gave one talk in Bangalore ashram shriish asham he invited so he gave a talk there and he always used to tell Andrew that you know India needs a lot you know come back you know again and again and you know this this needs the country needs like you know Indians also need this understanding this wisdom you come very often he used to encourage and he was very friendly and loving with Andrew there are so many people like you know we met Aja he interviewed Aja one you know enlightened soul uh from from Karnataka and his interviews for the when you know enlight what is enlightenment magazine so that also you know has thrown a light you know a big light on so many aspects, so many uh discussions, you know, so much of wisdom has been put it on the paper like that people really enjoyed that and he has created a big scale like you know a big parameter for all the other teachers also like you know the way he was living. So he always says like you know living example like you know living example is important you know. So that was a big challenge to many many many many people like okay we can have a spiritual experience and okay we can say take you know shelter in that and again go back to our own conditioning but uh he created a scale that that's and I used to tell to one of the seniors like you know I used to speak to Steve a lot you know he used to stay in India he was like a structural engineer in the spirituality M because he created so many structures like you know they were there but you know those structures to the modern man to the modern man the way he created the structures the in a in a very simple format and he proved like it's not a proof actually it's like a living example among the community among the students in the in the retreats itself we experienced that that oneness maybe there are 200 people that oneness is there with with closed eyes in stillness or while engaged with one another in a dialogue. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. And when you say structures, uh I think one of the qualities of Andrew was also that he could explain this this mysterious concept in a very rational way. Rational in a in a good sense like like with clear words. His teaching was so clear, so precise in a way. Even though it's hard to put in words what the experience is and what he was pointing to, but his pointing out instructions were so powerful. Yes. Yeah. Th those words like those sentences sometimes like you know like uh something extraordinary you know I can't be see one of the retreats like I had a very powerful experience and I was not able to speak much like the way I'm speaking now. So I used to you know want to see him privately. He said that nothing meeting in privately. You can speak in the group but I spoke a little bit but uh after that after that powerful experience in the in the next session when I sat for meditation the meditation was not happening. I was a little disappointed in the beginning but then after that something triggered within me a flow of you know you know a it's not I was thinking a flow if I can hold on to that flow I shared this with many people I I can't hold on to that flow it's like a wisdom flowing just like that you know I'm just a watcher and even that that was also you know in that stillness it is it is not exactly still but there is something the flow is there but still yeah I'm at at peace and I'm at you know I'm grounded completely and after the retreat if I wanted to recolct if I can recollect all that I can at least produce two books but it is impossible you can't you can't you know stop that flow it is a flow like a river it is flowing like a river it is flowing uninterrupted so clear like you know it's just going on and on and on and on but later on I realized Maybe that stayed in the memory or you know I don't know but whenever somebody asked or you know when I'm interacting with other people it used to come spontaneously. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's the state of the authentic self as Andrew called it. When when we are getting beyond ego and and are aligned with that that that flow that river that the evolutionary impulse that drives the creation of the world then we feel like it's it's it's a it's a generative flow and we just go with it. We respond to it. It's not a passive it's I always find it interesting. It's not a passive state. It's it's like a flow that we want to respond to by by living the our best expression of ourselves. Yeah. That's something that I found always very impressive with Andrew's teaching that he he called upon us to live our our best our most beautiful true and good life. It it always felt like he wants us to sit up straight and and be our best selves. No. And express spirit through who we are. Yeah. And another thing like you know whenever I interacted with him you know I had the fortune for the last you know maybe a decade or so more than a decade. He became more like you know he was very loving loving towards me. He was very kind and you know we had that kind of a friendship. uh in the friendliness we discussed many things many things in in those you know discussions like you know sometimes it was you know 40 minutes 45 minutes an hour these see he was always speaking only about these these subjects nothing else. So that discussions also like you know after the discussion or while discussing it was so enriching it was so fulfilling so enriching so inspiring you know so much to you know uh discover and you know gain the confidence like you know the way he coined the word spiritual self-confidence that gave rise to much more uh you know to go in this direction though the current of the of the world outside the unconscious patterns are so strong where we can just fall easily into the world the way right now the world is going through but this helped me not to fall into that maybe as alone you can stand alone you can you can really fight it back so that that confidence and um that confidence was really a light you know uh to face the world to face the world yeah and I I know that he really appreciated the friendship with you Sudakar after after the crash in 2013 and and everything that happened, he was so happy to have you as a friend and a friend and student and and as an inspired person and that still believed in his teaching and uh I think that that was so valuable to him and another thing like you know we discussed a lot about the guru and uh student relationship from the Indian perspective and I can tell you with with the great humility I'm saying if you would have born in India he would have created a history created a history I'm sure about that one and being you know a westerner like you know but uh his roots uh of his awakening and the way he explained and he really loved India he really loved that there is something in India country the moment you come here and you know when you speak about these things there is something like you know there is some deeper thing he always said like you guys in India like you know the spirituality is there in your blood and bones. Yeah. Yeah. He always said you know he very very laughingly you know sometimes making fun. He says that you guys are really like that you know and in the west it is not that easy like you know they can't relate to the guru so easily and about the crash also I want to share few things. uh I don't know what exactly happened on you know that those things but when I met him when I heard about all these things I was unconditional with him it's my relationship with my teacher so my relationship with my teacher is important to me so if he's having you know other things so that is you know that is he has to deal all those things with with himself so I I never you know uttered a single word or anything like you know or Even somebody's saying certain things about Andrew, I felt really like, you know, okay, maybe they have the pain, you know, they experience the pain. But in India, if you experience a pain or anything through a guru, you take it as, you know, okay, a cleansing process, a karma that you are dissolving instead of blaming the guru. So in India, we have a great respect towards the the teacher like you know because if God and teacher both come together, whom do you prostrate first? I say that you know I prostrate to the guru because without guru I can't even recognize the god. So that's why guru brahma guru vishnu guru deu maheshwara guru sakhatmaishah. So guru is like the guru one who liberates you not the general you know the academic things. We are not talking about those things. We're talking about this fundamental thing. In the fundamental thing the guru's role is very very very important. without his guidance. Without he saying that this is what you are, I cannot recognize. So maybe you may recognize but it takes its own sweet time. If somebody is already there, he recognizes you because he is already living in that. He recognizes you and he can just say that okay that's that's it man. Then you can compress your time so much and so that you can evolve much more. You can evolve much more. So my relationship with him was you know like you know it was something really great. I don't know like you know I I born in a very small village in a remote place of you know Andhra Pradesh and uh where Andrew he he you know he he he's an American and you know somewhere we met and our journey is 30 years you know long journey together and we we we were so close like you know I never felt that I'm I am separated from him. So the the the intimacy the love the friendship that uh it is it's like you know I can't explain in words like you know it's something really beautiful that I think that happens only in the in the spiritual domain maybe in the general world we may still have some reservations but here it is not there it's only one it's only that one that oneness was with him is something like I cannot forget it's my my blessing in in my in my life meeting Andrew cut it. But you were beautifully talking about the guru and and the importance of the guru. Yeah. In the tradition like you know that's very very important especially in the spiritual domain in the spiritual teachings. Yeah. Because these are all you know like um unknown things. They are mystical things and the journey is always from known to unknown. Yeah. Yeah. So in the unknown journey and you need a guide like you know the guide is you know who is already on the path and he is moving in that direction and you know altogether moving in that direction gives you like you know you are in the right direction you are moving in the right direction that gives you a kind of confidence and you know and that is very much needed otherwise there are possibilities that you know it you know one can go into uh you know different different direction like you know one can you know spoil one's life or one can get disconnected you know from the world and live completely a different life but this togetherness and with a teacher helps to navigate oneself to you know in the right in the right direction absolutely and it is probably true that it's that it's probably true that it's uh more ingrained in the Indian culture that this is an important relationship than it is in the west therefore probably many westerners have much more difficulties to to uh see the value of the guru and and to understand what the relationship to the guru actually means. I think it takes a lot to to understand that but once you have it's a it's a bond that is unlike any other isn't it? It's not comparable to any other one. Yeah. Yes. Exactly. It's forever. Once you are there you are there. Yeah. It's forever. Yeah. I I really enjoyed like I really you know I had tough times with Andrew like you know those challenges and those things but I never like you know I never felt okay let me face those challenges and you know let me come out of that you know let me deal with that. So he was like a great inspiration he was very you know great inspiration. I saw him you know giving a talk in Shivanand ashram and uh yeah you know in Shivanand ashram like you know it's such a prestigious institution in India like he he when he gave a talk over there like you know coming together and you know exploring this and you know there is a possibility that you know we can we can change the world you know he always said that you know we that the world needs that maybe everybody thinks that it is difficult to change yeah of course it's not an easy thing but the the possibility he's saying that you know with this kind of u direction with this kind of teaching with this kind of understanding this is possible maybe right now I feel that maybe the world right now also needs this one otherwise where we are heading towards like look at you know all the issues like we are all discussing about health issues environmental issues all kinds of you know pollution like Krishna Morti G always says like you know Judy Krishna Morti G says that the corruption corruption is It's not outside. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. But it's it's also it's so hard to to convey this message to people and and to it's hard for people to actually do what these teachings point to Andrew's teaching and and many other spiritual teachings that that point to actually let go of the personal and go beyond ego and and connect to in a deep way and and then see how the world could look like and then create a new kind of world that is not corrupted. but uh would benefit from this access to the to the source of life and be be powered by the source of life. But but the thing I think you know from my understanding I say that you know one has to you know ground in you know in the ground of being for a for a you know real time. So then slowly it comes to that state. I think now we are just maybe that that particular u uh what Andrew is speaking about uh is important it is it's needed but the many people you know need some more time maybe I feel that uh know we need to that kind of uh uh evolution in in individual to understand and assimilate and go beyond that and you know sacrifice one's ego for that. Mhm. Mhm. Otherwise you know everyone is having their own personal baggage is their personal baggage is so strong like you know everyone has to deal the personal baggage and the world that we are living in is not that easy to survive. No, it's not exactly. Yeah, like I agree with you. Without the access to the ground of being there is no grounding. There is no foundation for whatever we we feel compelled to do. So that this is the first step to actually be able to let go and and experience the ground of being for real as as who we are and then get up from the meditation cushion and see what is the right relationship to life. As you said at the beginning that is what Andrew was pointing to what is the right relationship and that also needs more ground of being. It's not like one has to convince oneself one has to have the conviction that yes this is it now I'm done with that one this is it then I think yeah then only he can take the next step. Yeah. No I agree totally. Yeah. And it it takes a lot of practice and a lot of conviction and a lot of dedication to to spirit. Therefore, Andrew's first tenate is as true as it always was. No, we we have to make this our first priority. Yeah. I want freedom more than anything else. Yeah. Those tenants are like, you know, those like they they're the very fundamental things. Yeah. And yeah, it it puts the ego on challenge in a big challenge, you know. Yeah. Yeah. But he he is such a great soul like you know meeting him you know when you know with him and traveling with him and being with him and meditating with him know interacting with him understanding with him I feel that I'm blessed actually I'm really blessed and uh very fortunate to be you know uh his student maybe I know I'm not a very formal student but I consider myself that I'm a student. No, you you are. If you were and you are I know that and and he would have agreed with that wholeheartedly. Yeah. And uh I I when when I'm teaching also whatever that I you know I gained from Andrew I I taught to in in my classes that helped so many people so many hundreds of people because the the language barrier is there but I that's why I couldn't bring many people to Andrew but his teachings are implemented in in many of the in many of my students in their spiritual journey. It helped them a lot. Some of the people that they attended Andrew's retreats also. Yeah. Yeah. some some beautiful uh people from your student body came to to some of the retreats especially here. Yeah. Yeah. So in India right now the potential is there for like you know meditation and inquiry. Mhm. There is a big big means you know I can say that it is like you know ever since I met Andrew I'm saying this one even now I stand with that one. Meditation and inquiry is the need of the hour in India. very much needed. Very much needed. Yeah. The modern man doesn't want to go in the traditional way. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. It has to be it has to come in a different form. No. Yes. And the way he explained and the way he coined the words and you know they're very very simple and you know easy to understand and put it into practice. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Is there anything else that we left out that you would like to mention? I think it was a beautiful beautiful how you talk about Andrew and and uh the the books like you know I read like you know the small books helped me a lot and um the way he chose like you know freedom has no history you know that has so much to convey freedom has no history and uh myself is uh my master. Yeah, your true self is your master like you know and who is already discovered his own true self and you know he is your guru and once you discover your true self you can go together like you know so you have that gratitude that you know that love towards your guru and you know so these are something like you know that helped me a lot means a lot I can't explain I'm ever grateful to Andrew that much I can I can say and he is there all the time with me and uh He guided me you know we shared so many things on a personal note and on a spiritual note everything like you know I feel really really blessed to meet Andrew and be with him and you know you know interact with him and stay with him for some so many so many years together I really you know it's it's a fortune fortune for me. Yeah, thank you so much Sudakar. This was a real pleasure. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Daniela. [Music]