Open Questions with Andrew Cohen, 12th February 2023

so like I always like to say before we go into a question and answer period the secret of the practice of inquiry is always learning how to always be more interested in what we don't know than what we do know so this is perennial wisdom and um it's really important so I teach I teach I encourage people who study with me to learn how to cultivate this position of uh not already knowing and wanting to know in relationships all experience moment to moment every single day no matter what's happening we always want to leave room for what we don't already know because we are we're all in the midst of a developmental process that's unfolding and if we look objectively and scientifically becomes apparent that there's so much that we don't see most of the time or all the time so it's an already and also if we if we ignorantly in arrogantly assume that we already do know we stop paying attention we stop listening we stop looking for what's not obvious and what's not apparent so the the secret and the Mystery to humility and to awaken us and to a measure of objectivity is being more interested in what we don't know than what we do know the ego or the small self is always more interested in telling people what we already know letting everybody know that we know it's a big ego trip so most most of the time we're looking for opportunities to tell people what we think we know so that they'll think we're smart and intelligent and wonderful but if we want to be free we want to know the truth whatever that is we have to cultivate a very different kind of relationship to moment to moment reality which is not already knowing and wanting to know and in the being and becoming context of the teaching of evolutionary Enlightenment the wanting to know position wanting to Note to no position represents emptiness or nothingness avoidance or zero means I don't know so there's a big question mark there's nothing there except nothingness emptiness voidness so I don't know it's a big a big question mark and it represents the primordial dimension of Timeless formless being or nothingness and on the other hand the wanting to know position represents the creative surging of evolution the evolution of the cosmos it's the becoming the becoming side of the street I want to know because I want to exist and I want to know I want to understand I want to create I want to be knowledgeable I want to know what's true I want to see and perceive the world with as much Clarity and depth and perception as possible so not knowing is emptiness and voidness in the enlightenment context not knowing his emptiness and voidness and wanting to know is The evolutionary impulse becoming manifest within us so not knowing the so the meta position that I'm advocating the meta position and I'm advocating which is the position of 99 wanting to know represents the being in the being and becoming model of Enlightenment that evolutionary Enlightenment Advocates and works Within so being and become being and becoming being and becoming means I don't know what I want to know and I also uh believe very firmly that the not knowing not already knowing wanted to know position is the position of enlightened awareness the one who the one who has access to enlightened awareness is knowingly or unknowingly uh abiding this meta position of not already knowing and wanting to know that's the emptiness and the Creative Energy that you feel in their presence the wanting to know represents openness and vulnerability and innocence and purity of motivation uh to not knowing and the wanting to know represents an energetic commitment to the greater process in a very engaged relationship with it so not knowing wanting to know represents the whole teaching actually and it's uh it's it's it sounds simple and from a certain point of view it's ridiculously simple but uh it seems very hard for a lot of people to really grasp what does it mean to not already know and want to know so particularly in a context like this where we're coming together to do a question and answer process and when you ask a question it means you want to know the answer to a question it means that you want to know and if you want to know you have to be a good listener there's one thing one thing is having a question the other the other thing is be ready for the answer so if we if we if we're going to be ready for the answer it means we want to know the answer and if we want to know the answer it means we're going to be listening very carefully very closely very deeply the profound intensity so we have to become experts at not knowing wanting to know if we want to be have liberated Minds because everybody gets stuck in their mind in their own mind or in other people's minds because they are trapped in consciously are usually unconsciously already knowing this and already knowing that the minute we already know something there's no room for what's new which means we're always living in the past without even knowing it it's not a happy place so it's not a happy place to live it's not a liberated place to abide so not knowing and wanting to know is a big practice the big teaching it's the big it's the big meta position that we all want to put into practice I don't already know but I want to know and also not already knowing is is makes it possible for us to have an authentic relationship to reality because in fact nobody knows what the next moment is going to bring Nobody Knows the future so if we if we occupy this inner meta position I'm not already knowing we're living more authentically in relationships the actuality of the fact that we have no idea what the future holds we have no idea what the next moment holds so if because we don't know at the next moment I'll hold we want but we want to know what the next moment will hold and the way on the way to find us to pay attention and to be interested in what the next moment is going to be I don't know what I want to know I don't already know but I want to know um and yeah so not knowing wanting to that makes it possible to regain Lost Innocence because when we get old and arrogant and arrogant we start falling asleep all the time because there's no room because we stopped paying attention so if we are if we are energetically engaged with uh holding this raise this position is Razor's Edge it rages edges this is this magical space between knowing Humanity now is between past and future between the president and the future and the past and the future so it also takes courage to not already know and to want to know because if you don't already know you're allowing yourself to be very vulnerable unprotected you're allowing your mind to be very vulnerable empty of thoughts empty those thoughts to tell us I already know what he's going to say and I already know what's going to happen I'm ready for bed I have no idea what he's going to say and I have no idea what's going to happen oh I better stay awake then this is and I'm advocating this meta position I'm not already knowing I wanted to know that's the most perfect the most perfectly enlightened relationship to time to the present moment to the immediacy of the present moment and the next moment possible so it's not just for this particular small period of time we're going to spend together but I I I'm advocating this as a the most ideal meta position in relationship to every single moment no matter what's happening no matter what has happening no sorry no matter what has happened and no matter what you think may happen doesn't matter I don't already know but I do definitely want to know I'm awake empty and interested that's a good way to be I'm awake empty and interested I'm very awake I'm deeply empty and I'm very interested this is the metaphysician relationship trial experience that I think is the is the best position to possibly take if we want to be free we want to have access to online awareness and I have been repeating this for about 30 years and I will continue to repeat it for the next 30. you should I live that long so on that note I'll be ready to take the first question Daniella right so the first question comes from Morgan and Morgan says hi Andrew in chapter 7 of your new book when Shadow meets the bodhisattva you said and I quote quote Enlightenment is the realization of oneself and the deaths of division and multiplicity within the human personality end quote and then at the end of the chapter you came to a different conclusion so now I you saying that the opposite of the quote is also true making this a non-dual perspective well you have to tell me what I said remind me what I said what I just said and then remind me what I said at the end of the chapter please I'm just going back to it now can you hear me very nicely perfect perfect well but by the way I just want to say I really love your book um I'm on to chapter eight and there's a lot I I knew but there's a lot I didn't know and it's uh it's just refreshing to see that you um you got to a point where you're very vulnerable and you're able to just break it down for us and um showing the very The Human Side to yourself so I just want to say I really really appreciate this book and I've been also been promoting it to this book to other people just to that they need to read this so I just want to thank you for that um thank you thank you thank you Morgan I really appreciate it it's very kind it means a lot to me oh my pleasure my pleasure um but again the quotes but I wrote it down directly from from the book um Daniela if you could if you can just read that quote again only because I can't see it at the moment yes sure yeah sure Enlightenment is the realization of oneself and the deaths of division and multiplicity within the human personality that sounds good contradiction but I was wondering if that if um now that's uh at the end of the chapter uh you came to more of a conclusion which uh I interpreted as maybe now the you've seen the opposite of that and the opposite is also true along with the first quote that you made making that a non-dual perspective because even though it's it's um it's the definite division she could read me the last quote then I'll be able to figure it out but uh I already know that that's an absolute statement at the beginning of the chapter it's an absolute statement and and in the context of us of a state of consciousness it's true but it doesn't take into consideration the very real fluctuations of our Humanity which are not so erratically unchanging and absolute so I can imagine that there would be a contradiction between those two positions can you read me the one at the end of the chat the quote at the end of the chapter well the at the end of the chapter you repeat it again if I remember correctly you repeat it again but then you had um uh you based on what you're just saying you came to like the realization that um uh I would I would interpret it as that the the division and multiplicity is part of the human experience and um and that part is also that part is also just as necessary at least from a relative standpoint but from a relative standpoint well I don't know if it's absolutely necessary but it seems to be common seems to be part of part of a lot of people's experience whether it's necessary or not I'm not in a position to say but a big big theme in the book is the switch every in the book spoke about it's a humanist too and and it's what I've been saying a lot lately I which is a statement that it's possible to experience perfection as a state of consciousness and the experience of perfection as a state of consciousness will change one's life forever I believe it's changed it's changed my life forever and continues to change my life forever but it's not possible to be perfection so I want everybody to know and have no doubt that it's possible to experience absolute perfection as an inner experience as a state of consciousness but it's not possible to manifest Perfection as an evolving sentient being manifest perfectionism is on is unattainable but unmanifest Perfection is realizable and that's that's the uh existential tension that we have to grapple with if we're serious about this a lot of people are still under the false impression which is a Mythic belief it's an ancient Mythic belief that human Perfection is attainable but since we're all works in progress I don't think human Perfection is attainable as possible to become it's fossil to become more more perfect but it's never possible to be perfect okay we can always become get closer to perfection but we'll never arrive whereas we can realize the State of Consciousness and experiences State of Consciousness in which we experience inherent perfection and I also believe that the more we experience that the State of Consciousness in which we experience inherent perfection we experience we experience more and more inspiration to become to to to do the spiritual work that's necessary for us to be able to get closer and closer to being able to manifest perfection the experience of the experience of unmanifest perfection inspires us to honor get closer to being able to manifest Perfection which we'll never be able to do there's a dynamic or existential tension between those two which I think is which is the which is the ground that we want to work work on always always working on that tension never resting on our laurels and never saying I never believing that we've arrived and the work is all over if we're serious about this it'll never be done and we have to be willing to live on the razor's Edge which is what Max here who's on who's on the alternate he's a question he asked me the other day about being on the razor's Edge so the razor's edges between these two extremes so unmanifest Perfection to manifest perfection and be able to hold hold the existential Dynamic spiritual tension between those two poles very consciously I think is where the place we need to live is we want to learn how to be at our best all the time interesting interesting and the reason why um I'm glad that you're saying this is because back in 2019 I met with um Guru Parma hamsa vishwananda and he gave me darshan which led to a full non-dual Awakening experience in uh in uh December 14th of 2019. and I was explaining this to someone and the person said to me that's impossible because flawed there's no way somebody that could have led to that with a flawed human being like that but I know personally that based on what happened there at least my interpretation that that after receiving darshan and going through the process that I was going through led to this full Awakening um uh which I always attribute to uh partly to uh part of Mohammad when the person was saying but he's a flawed human being it's not possible but so so is Jesus [Laughter] but it is helpful to this is not a moral judgment it's just kind of obvious that if we as we come more and more to recognize that we're in an evolution evolving universe and the light that light life is evolving in in in in and through and it's part and parcelain's evolutionary process and as long as we're evolving when we've never arrived at the at the ultimate ultimate our final goal of evolution that always exists in the future that's true yeah and um and what I find what I continue to find fascinating and so interesting about this question is that um this is this this false association with the attainment of a stability and a higher state of consciousness and and human Perfection is an ancient Mythic belief you know this is kind of like Jesus was born of a virgin this this is a this is a Mythic uh fallacy where the Buddha was omniscient so it's it's a Mythic fallacy and these are these are ancient ideas that seem to have survived modernity and post-modernity and even now in this in this post-modern and post-post modern context a lot of people are struggling with this question of being surprised that that's that's highly spiritually evolved people are also imperfect human beings seems to be a very new idea for most people because because we are still not free from a lot of these ancient myths about Spiritual Development psychological psychological stages of development very true yeah yeah and it's the myth of human perfection they also come to realize within um within our own uh practices that the struggle to become perfect it really does seem to be impossible at least for me subjectively it's like this doesn't seem to be realistic don't you try your best I continue to try my best but it's like this doesn't seem to be realistic based on the teachings that I've read in the past no we want to we want to reach towards it knowing we're never going to arrive yeah in other words like I heard I heard another teacher say a few weeks ago when you talk about his new book that he thinks it's much better to strive for mediocrity than perfection and I thought well I've never heard anything so uninspiring in my life so but we must appreciate and we should try and appreciate that there is a there's a very delicate evolutionary tension to reach for Perfection that we realize is not actually unattainable that requires an enormous self-discipline and enormous humility because because when we're reaching beyond our own limits uh when we continue to reach beyond our own limits to try and reach that Perfection that we know is unattainable we will discover and awaken potentials inside us that we never would have discovered or awakened or reached had we not been reaching beyond our limitations so we will so in order to in order to continue to stay in the growth process we have to be always reaching beyond our beyond the fixed limits that we have become used to and it's a it's a kind of it's also a meta position it doesn't it doesn't just mean that we wanna always do a few extra push-ups it might mean that but it's we don't want to we don't limit it to anything so mundane it has to do with um has to do with the kind of metaphysical what I would call a kind of metaphysical striving in relationship to the our Humanity to the essence of our of our Humanity to become more more humble more intelligent more sensitive less selfish more awake more liberated more generous more beautiful in every way and there's no end to how far any of us can take this um and the main thing is that we don't rest we don't want to drive ourselves crazy either we don't want to drive ourselves you know I'm not but then we need to be able to sustain if we're serious we want to learn how to sustain what I call evolutionary tension evolutionary tension is positive developmental tension that helps us to continue to stay awake and to spiritually strive towards greater consciousness and the practice of meditation alone is not enough it's part of it means I want I want to be more awake can I be more awake of course I can we all can we always can be more away I want to be more awake and I want to be more conscious than I than I already am always because haven't you noticed Morgan that uh at the minute we start resting for too long we start falling into into slightly into an unconscious State even if we're Wide Awake even if we're not sleepy but we begin to unconscious when we start slipping into unconscious Meandering and we're not sharp anymore we don't really know what's happening or where we are who we are anymore we forget and it can happen in an instant I'm not saying there's anything wrong with this with this but I'm just saying that the more we pay attention the more we see that when we're not making more effort to pay attention we often end up in a place in a place in South where we're Meandering because the unconscious is so active and um so so within that we want to strive always to be more conscious and more more of what we can be and then I've spoken to you just spoken about this to you in another call I think I think about six months ago but also if you were engaging in this process and this practice with other people then how much how much each individual is making the effort to be more conscious can affect the others or the other and the others so in other words if you are you and I are in a committed relationship if I'm making more effort to become more conscious and simultaneously you're making more of the effort to be more conscious then our relationship will be inherent in our relationship will be the presence of this evolutionary tension towards Consciousness that's coming from both of us which will Enlighten and enliven you know very spiritually Dynamic way the nature of the way we're relating to each other the relationship will become kind of an evolutionary engine the most profound and beautiful way so would this also be true then if a group of people are are striving towards this but I'm putting more effort than the other person could that affect me or it doesn't not matter different if we're not equally putting the same amount of effort because I may be more passionate about the the people who know what happens is the people who make more effort have a greater influence on The evolutionary potential of the collective I see yeah everybody's not going to be making equal effort because some people care about care a lot more than others some people have more have more spiritual potential than others but the the ones who make the greatest effort will have the biggest effect on on everyone else and and those people who are stabilized at higher levels of development will also have a have a great effect on other people also we shouldn't underestimate how how much we affect each other in terms of in terms of Consciousness in in in in clear and evidence and not so evident ways so if we're holding a higher standard of behavior higher standard of being higher standard self-awareness and in our presence other people will will suddenly feel more self-aware because they're with us because we're animating manifesting and transmitting more self-awareness because they'll suddenly feel more self-aware in our company not because they're making an effort to be more self-aware because because they can feel our higher level of Consciousness our higher level of self-awareness which makes them more aware of themselves very naturally um yeah makes sense thank you Andrew sure man yeah but we all affect each other a lot more than we're do we tend to be aware of yeah great thank you I just want to say to everyone that I really highly recommend this book so please pick it up because just the first few chapters alone I was just floored so thank you thank you Morgan thank you very much thank you Morgan so the next question is from Reina she is saying you said the Mind cannot understand the absolute is understanding different and perceiving or experiencing it and what is that faculty is there any faculty that we as humans have that can actually grasp the totality of being and becoming why give the mind the task of trying to explain something it cannot understand that sounds like a great question can you read that again a little faster faster yeah I heard the first thing yeah yeah you said the Mind cannot understand the absolute is understanding different and perceiving or experiencing it and what is that faculty is there any faculty that we as humans we'll go back and go back to the second is understanding different than mine then perceiving or experiencing it and what is that faculty well the point the point is that the mind can never know the absolute that's that's basically the whole point was there more to the question yeah why give the mind the task of trying to explain something it cannot understand this is all we've got because the mind is all we've got something the mind is the only tool that God has given us to kind of make sense out of life and in this case the mind can't uh can't understand something that I can't thought that it can't see so and then we find that uh what's the person's name Lorena hi Reina hi Raina nice to see you I see you there that the Miranda you probably heard me say this before when my Guru said to me once he said he said Andrew I'm so glad you found a friend I'll never be able to see I'm so glad you found a friend you'll never be able to see so that statement I find profoundly enlightening and shocking every time I say it every time I think about it Andrew I'm so glad you found a friend you'll never be able to see so that rendered that renders the mind and ego utterly powerless in the face of the absolute to the way we the way we the way the absolute the way the absolute reveals itself to us is when we surrender the mind and ego how do we surrender the mining ego I can't tell you if it's meant to happen it will happen it'll happen in its own time because we're because we're ready for it to happen when I was through when I was with my Guru when I was first with my Guru I said to him one day that I'm ready to die but I don't know how so when I told him I was ready to die in a.net and I didn't know how that was an expression coming from my that was an expression of sincerity or demonstration of sincerity coming from my soul where's my ego talking so if we're if we're if we cultivate sincerity if we're if we are deeply sincere about our aspirations for enlightenment and we're ready to let go of the small self but then it will happen and we will seek for circumstances that will make that uh happening much more likely and available to us there's nothing we can something it's not something we can force to happen we can compel to happen it will it will it will happen absolutely if we were if we were the first absolutely sincere about this at one pointed it's just a matter of time it will happen but but because we're so sincere about it because we want it to happen so badly we will seek out circumstances that will help us towards that end but that will help to facilitate that outcome and then it will so I was uh when I met my own teacher when I was 30 years old I've been seeking since I was 22. and then after sitting in front of him for 10 minutes I realized that my mind was just an appearance it was an illusion it was it wasn't real I saw right through my mind as a result of sitting in front of this great man and because of his presence my mind became transparent in a way I'd never had before and then I knew that Enlightenment was available so these things do happen if we are as diversity sincere about it does that answer your question but are you then saying that if it doesn't happen you're not sincere um well in my way of thinking it means you didn't want it badly enough yes this is my own thinking it's and I'm not saying I'm right about it but part of part of my teaching is that um I believe that if we want to be free without conditions then then no one or nothing will be able to stop us but this requires a kind of a wholeheartedness a an absolute commitment I always compare it to jumping out of an airplane without a parachute so if we jump out of an airplane without a parachute it means we don't have any intention of going back so that's the kind of one-pointed wholehearted intensity that we have to bring to this endeavor and I think a lot of people are interested in Enlightenment but they're not this they're not it's not they're not wholehearted about it they're still one of the things and I think for this kind of leap to happen at least in the short term during at least there needs to be some brief period where we don't want anything else and we're ready to pay the ultimate price whatever whatever the ultimate price is we don't even know of course it's ego death it's letting go of the mind and you go but it means that we are deadly Syria as we're deadly serious about it in ways that most people never even dream of being because when we become deadly serious about it we we feel that we need to have the Ultimate Experience in order to be able to be here in this world like I felt between the time I was 22 and I was I was 30 years old I felt at times I felt desperate about Awakening I literally felt emotionally desperate existentially desperate about it I felt if I don't if I can't succeed in doing this life isn't worth living I I wasn't thinking about ending my life or anything I wasn't a negative character but uh but I just wasn't interested in anything nothing else made sense to me because I knew I knew everything else was relative was a dead end Street sooner or later as a young person I knew that I lived long enough and I thought deeply enough about life to know that nothing else which really set me free so I was looking for the ultimate answer and because I'd had a powerful experience when I was a young much younger person I knew that I knew this higher state of consciousness actually existed because I'd experienced it for a few moments so I knew it was real and when I'd read about the experiences of great historically recognized grade realizes I I could recognize the truth and what they were describing because I tasted it for at least a few minutes so I knew it existed so and I knew that without and I went ahead and had my initial experience which lasted for a few minutes I I knew I knew instantaneously that for those few minutes I was actually awake and I was conscious in a way that I'd never been before or after and that's how I wanted to be all the time so I was quite serious about it so yeah so in my thinking that because the thing is um I've never met anybody who wanted to be free too much I've never met anybody that wanted to be free so much it didn't work I've met people who who weren't wholehearted enough about it lots of times but I never I never met somebody who wanted it too much does that help yes it does thank you do you do you do you Reina do you believe in your in your unworthiness for this process in this kind of process yes I believe so that's very good because it's it's very important to believe in our unworthiness in this process you have to believe in God whatever that means we have to believe in our unworthiness those are the two essential prerequisites I believe that if we believe in God and with all of our hearts and we believe in our unworthiness and ultimately nothing will be in the way ultimately I have difficulty with the word god I'm sorry I I thought I didn't realize when I said it it was a mistake it's like god let's call it the absolute okay thank you is that better it is better almost anything is better no I I don't mean some old Jewish guy with a really long an angry old Jewish man with a Long White Beard I didn't mean that but um some other ways I like to describe describe it as the assumptu is the absolute is the sum totality of everything that exists and everything that does not exist and some totality of everything that exists and everything that does not exist or the absolute principle this is some totality of everything that exists and everything that does not exist is that better so so what qualities would you say are necessary in order to consider and experience one of enlightenment enormous humility enormous humility have you ever went have you ever heard of the three ten Wilbur's three faces of God no well Ken Wilbur the American philosopher Ken Wilbur says we experience God of this absolute principle in three contexts so the first context is absolute subjectivity or what Ramadan maharish you calls the I am it's when this the sense of being the subject the I sense uh grows bigger and bigger until it grows to infinity and all there is is I it's not the eye of the small self instead of the big self so this is the absolute principle or the god principle that's absolute that's the absolute subject is that clear yes the second that's called the first face of God the Second Face of God is when we experience God in an eye thou context until we experience God as the great other this is when we experience a devotional relationship to God as an absolute principle as a great other that's when we feel it is devotional feelings and feelings of surrender and submission that's that's that's that's God has the great other as that's I thou it's the second face of God and the third face of God is the experience of God as as the some totality of everything that exists and everything doesn't exist it's evolutionary panantheism God is is to create a process and that which that which transcends the creative process is who and what God of this absolute principle is it's all of reality scene and I've seen on an unknown is what this absolute principle is all of that and transcends it all at the same time that's God as it so the first race of God is is I or I am second base of God is I thou the third face of God has seen God as the great it and they're they're all they're different kinds of their different experiences of the absolute the different perspectives on this one absolute principle and I think it's very helpful to to to understand that the the god experience of the experience of this absolute principle can appear to us in different ways these are three of the most fundamental perspectives in which through this absolute principle reveals itself is that helpful yes and and in your experience in talking to many many different students is there a difference in the experience between men and women in how they experience enlightenment I don't think so no because the enlightenment is the experience of consciousness Enlightenment another way to understand what enlightenment is is when Consciousness lights up Consciousness becomes aware of itself so in conscious and suddenly self suddenly recognizes itself becomes self-aware that's a transpersonal experience it's not a personal experience it transcends all Duality including the duality of gender this is why because we're always experiencing consciousness and we're always knowingly or usually unknowingly aware of consciousness usually unaware but Enlightenment is a moment when Consciousness suddenly lights up and becomes aware of itself that's the shocking over moment of Awakening and the thing about Consciousness is whatever Consciousness is where the thing about Consciousness is that it is Timeless and formless and beginning with an endless in breakfast and deathless and when we really awaken to it we recognize that it's also eternal so when Consciousness becomes self-aware it wakes up to itself it's also a glimpse of Eternity and we realize in that moment that it's all it's always been here it has never been anywhere else except here but we're usually not aware of it because we are more focused on the objects that arise in Consciousness and not unconsciousness itself massage in a rare moment when we pull our attention back we focus on on Consciousness and not the objects that are rising in Consciousness Consciousness can certainly leap out and become self-aware and that's when we become self-aware of our true nature which is timeless and formless and beginnings and synonymous and eternal that's quite a shock it's a metaphysical shock it's an ecstatic shock the wondrous shock oh my goodness I had no idea this is so amazing this is so miraculous this is extraordinary so profound so utterly liberating so meaningful and purposeful and if that's when we come to our needs and gratitude not to an old Jewish man with a white beard up in the sky but we come to our knees in front of our own self because we are at this level and I'm trying to describe so miraculous we all are because that's the nature of Consciousness that someone in 2020 to become self-realized so have no doubt that everything you may have heard about Enlightenment in terms of how wondrous and extraordinary profound miraculous is is all true like when I woke up this morning either I woke up this morning with this wondrous feeling in the middle of my chest and it was the feeling was of overwhelming Joy but it wasn't but it but it was a it wasn't just a feeling of Joy or happiness there was a feeling of um of brightness and love it's very and it was very focused intensity it seemed to have it seem to be attached to No Object it had nothing to do with past or future or even anything in the present moment except itself and these kinds of miraculous feelings uh even if they're fleeting at times are more compelling than any other kind of experience we've been having the body mind can experience in life because life can be miraculous and dramatic in so many so many ways there's so many positive and it's only positive experiences we can have that are all good true and beautiful but what I'm describing are particular kinds of ecstatic feelings that are not about us personally and not even about life it has to do with the nature of something with the nature of existence what at least it feels like I'm almost like that instead of something about the mystery of existence itself whatever that means is revealed in those moments where the mind is utterly is utterly addressed and the you seem to be cognizing or knowing something that is getting back to your question that we can never understand with the mind but but the experience of which answers and answers every question removes all questions and then we know that we know what do we know we we say something that's ultimate and knowing that which is Ultimate it was it relieves us as the existential burden of why does the world exist and what am I supposed to be doing those questions disappear thank you Andrew very good believe in yourself it's all possible and the next question is from Sahara and she will not be able to respond to you but she will listen to your response she says I am a nurse in Cape Town South Africa I am a college person my days are filled with people dying in the ICU this is making me want to cry so much I'm only 25 but have this life what is the best place to start my journey and how would I go about it what would help me and the people I care for at my job that is so cruel can you read the question again I am a nurse in Cape Town I am a colored person my days are filled with people dying in the ICU this is making me want to cry so much I'm only 25 but have this life what is the best place to start my journey and how would I go about it what would help me and the people I care for at my job this is so cruel well it sounds like it sounds like the work you're doing you're already well on your journey um I mean I personally can't imagine the challenge that you're facing I've never had to face anything quite like that in my life but I admire I I admire your courage and your dedication to help release relieve suffering and I can't think of anything more and I can't think of a more important way to serve this world process and then then doing everything we can to relieve suffering and this this is what when people awaken to enlightened awareness this is this is historically what people feel can feel drawn to do and compelled to do when people awaken to Consciousness into this metaphysical beauty that lies it's a source of existence and a source of reality the response for most people is what can I do to relieve suffering to relieve ignorance so there's there's uh there's mental and emotional suffering it's a result of ignorance and ego and there's Untold physical suffering which is a result of all kind of diseases and all kinds of unforeseen circumstances but suffering is there's so much suffering in in this human world space and there always has been I imagine there always will be and when we really awaken to the to the nature of suffering into the to its overwhelming and inconsolable nature realized that there was nothing we can do in the end except to bear it it opens our hearts and if enlightened that revelation we we can we have the training like you do and the the spiritual courage and conviction to one I want to actually do something about it and actually be able to get to help to relieve the suffering by the people there's not a more beautiful and perfect way we can serve we can serve and to give back to the Creator so I think what you're doing is heroic and I applaud you and I'm yeah I'm I'm very impressed in terms of with yourself you should probably learn to meditate and learn to practice self-realization of God realization that you can through spiritual practice and through Right company right Association you can awaken to these deeper dimensions of reality which are the ultimates source of soulless and comfort in the midst of these overwhelming existential and metaphysical challenges because it's the it's the it's the Awakening it's the metaphysical Awakening that um that relieves us of this terrible burden of overwhelming suffering and envy of the uh of of the pain of it all and I would encourage you to try and come to some of these phone calls as more regularly if you can because uh the teaching that I'm sharing here does help quite a bit it helps it helps to come to terms with the complexity of Duality and Challenge on the insulting the challenge of being human so if you can if you could come a little bit more regularly to these calls and I also help people to meditate once a week it would be helpful to you and um I also do retreats and spending time together speaking about speaking about enlightenment and speaking about how to awaken how to awaken to to Consciousness how to be free helps a lot to awaken the experience directly and having these kinds of experiences through having these kinds of experiences we can discover a source of faith against all the odds which which is utterly liberating and soul strengthening and you should find somebody to help you also where you are in South Africa because we all need all the help we can get does that help Sarah I think she cannot answer and do she is in the emergency room listening oh wow yeah okay the next question is from Derek he's I feel excited by the possibility of a reformed Guru disciple relationship as my relationship with my Guru and those experiences I see as fundamental by practice but how can authentic and deep experiences like you've shared you've had and which I've had with Stuart Perry who worked with me for 17 years through all my stuff without the kind of reference which I admit I emulated inspired by Yogananda and my Mormon background I want to carry what I've learned to do forward and deepen and share it with other people but like Joseph Smith which is the true church I don't know but I want to I met Stuart Derek by the way I met Stuart Baron at his I think he had an art gallery in New York is that true yeah he got it he had an art gallery in New York and I I came to study um in New York with him about the time that Mike and Bridget and ronit and all those guys oh wow very good yeah so I had a conversation with him so and I'm a little bit aware of the it's the story with Rudy and and Muslim that's quite a story so what's your question to me I'm not clear uh well I tried to come out of sort of a searching and I found a guru and you know but uh it's not very woke your sound is going in and out could you please repeat what you said I'm sorry yeah I just I just feel like that the the template for Guru disciple relationship doesn't work in my life anymore like I would never want to be any One Scooter I would never want to take that on but I do want to relieve suffering so I'll find new ways and uh I I I've I I once thought meditation was preeminent but but now I've discovered that it isn't really the only thing that you that you know you can't get through just on that it's the desire to be free that I've always wanted I don't want to belong to the true church I don't want any more churches or Guru disciples I just really want to grow and that sounds great so what's the next step what's in the way man well it's been my confidence sorry my confidence in the process my confidence in the process has been in the way you don't have enough confidence in the you don't have enough confidence in yourself or in the process like the process that I where I learned this stuff was in a like a kind of a special group but I won't believe that it should be required to have a special group well very good before I met my Guru I was set up with groups I was fed up with the whole the whole Paradigm I wanted to go do my own thing and be free on my own I was gonna go to Korea and live on the side of a mountain but I ended up meeting him first so so if you feel if you feel that uh if you feel that Derek then you should you should you should create a a a practice regime for yourself that you feel is going to take you over the edge and you should create a regime that you feel that you feel is going to do the trick and then then do it that's what I was going to do but before I met my Guru I was going to go to Korea there's a mountain in Korea called Busan which is near the city of Busan and this mountain outside the city of Busan they have a lot of Zen temples and I was into when I practiced martial arts all the time so I was going to go there for five years I made a mine I'm gonna go for five years I'm gonna take a valve celibacy I'm not going to get involved in any relationships and I'm gonna All I'm gonna do is practice martial arts and I'm gonna do a Sachin every month I'd say at a Zen temple there and I was going to live alone and I was going to put my head to the grindstone and I had and I had a lot of confidence in myself I knew that if I created the right conditions and it was just going to be a matter of time but this is at least what I believed what I thought so I was on my way to Korea but then what happened is I went to see my girl for three I went there and I said I'm just going to be here for three days and I'm leaving he said very good but then but then of course it changed my life but I can completely sympathize and relate to how you feel because that's how I felt before I met him and I was determined I just needed to create the right conditions set up set up the conditions that I felt were going to take me over the edge and I and I still believe that had I done that something big would have happened it would have had to if I was that dedicated that one point did that undistracted because I'd had enough experiences when I was traveling on my own in those days I remember one day I was in a beach in off the Bay of Bengal in in Northern India and I stayed up all night meditating on the roof of this building I was staying on the beach and I and I remember I went for a walk after the sun came up on the beach and I saw things I suddenly I had a moment where I saw through my mind my mind became utterly transparent and I realized that the enlightenment that I was searching for was just a breath it was the Harris breath away that it wasn't far it was right there and for a few seconds I saw it I had no doubt that I was seeing it so because I'd had lots of experiences like that I knew it wasn't far away I just needed to create the right conditions I believed where I could be utterly focused on that alone and I thought that was going to do it for me and I was very excited about it and I felt relieved that I'd figured out a plan and and part of my plan was not to be reliant on any teacher because I didn't want to be involved with teachers or gurus or students and groups everything that you're so sick of I was sick of it too that wasn't there wasn't to be my destiny apparently Andrew yes I'm sorry just as far as where I am now um it's been like seven years since I I left that sorry it's been seven years and I've been I've I've okay I've been trying I wanted I want to make what you're teaching is right I mean it's the truth I just and I'm loving your book I'm appreciating it very much so important that you wrote that book thank you Derek I can't I can't tell you how important it is that you wrote that book thank you yeah but but Derek it sounds like I'm everything that you want to get away from so if I'm everything you want to get away from you should stay away yeah I stay away from you but like what what you you know the I uh I think we're on to something here you know and I really want to tackle it but I need to be regularly attending very good well I wanted you in it I warned you brother Now by not you have warned me I heard that okay I just I just want everything to be good between us so at least I want my content I want my conscience to be clean conscience to be clean but I appreciate I appreciate it thank you for everything you said about the book and thank you for everything you're saying about the teachings and what you're feeling about it and all is true thank you the next question is from Igor he is asking what is the difference between Eros and evolution pulse and is there a principal difference between Mark Gaffney and Andrew Cohen teachings uh there's no difference between Eros and The evolutionary and possibly the same thing and the teachings between Mark and Andrew are very similar they're very similar there's just a different emphasis Marcus Mark makes a little bit more of an emphasis on the on the on the personal dimension of the expression of The evolutionary impulse when he speaks about his unique self and there's some and there's a great emphasis on the expression of of a certain kind of love uh ecstatic Godzilla outrageous love which is uh which is different than how I approach this but it's pretty close I I'm more I'm more emphasize the process the process side of the evolutionary teaching rather than the the personal experience of Love dimension of it but relative relatively but then more or less it's more or less the same because um because because it's it's about the Awakening Evolution you make the evolution as one experience one context one one truth we're just approaching it from slightly different different perspectives and uh sometimes uh you and Mark called the event evolutionary dialogues what is the purpose of this event mixing this approach uh the purpose is to share the share the Dharma with with each other with people share the teachings appreciate the differences and similarities helping people find it helpful are you still in Bali yes I have 10 days here and um you describe the experience in Bangalore and beach so I would like to question about it uh do you know the book of Michael Murphy golf in the Kingdom Michael Murphy God for the kingdom you guys have heard about it there was a explanation of enlightenments of golf players and that was similar you described that you are in the Gulf you like see their point in very big resistance is it something like Enlightenment or or what is it well I I I know about the book and I've heard this I've heard the story of the book but I've never read the book so I can't speak from a position of authority but I imagine because Michael Murphy knows a lot about Enlightenment that I'm sure here I'm sure that's exactly what he was describing just uh I'm curious to understand what means uh you you'll find a friend you was unable to see yes what what is it can it be a transmitted Soul works or not that's why it's no well no eager it's about non-duality it's a teaching about non-duality by Oneness because if you can see your friend and your friend is separate from you if you can't see your friend your friend is not separate from you so if you find a friend you'll never be able to see it means you have found Oneness you've found non-duality that's what that's what that's a technical explanation is it from like Insight our local Consciousness or not it's non-duality Oneness uh what that was my question it's very goody guy nice to see you I hope to take good care of yourself yes nice to see you too thank you the next question is from Gil he is Health King could you please talk more about the right Association what are the important criteria of right Association what are the rewards of right Association and what are the risks and dangers of wrong Association but there are some obvious considerations and some not so obvious considerations of course as you say context is critical so Gil this must be based upon like quoting the Buddha when the Buddha was asked is associated with like-minded people are part of the Holy life the Buddha's response was association with like-minded people is the whole of the Holy life is that what this question is based on um no but that's a great line oh yeah no no right Association a few minutes ago oh no I'm sorry just so no so listen I'll repeat it because it's very important apparently when the Buddha was asked is association with like-minded people a part of the Holy life his response was association with like-minded people is the whole of the holy night so he that he he said it I didn't he didn't say meditation is the most important part of the Holy life he didn't say generosity is the most important part of the whole life he said associated with like-minded people is the whole of the Holy life so you go wow what does that mean so that means to me that if you're interested in waking to Enlighten awareness interested in Enlightenment interested in spiritual illumination that more important than the practice of meditation or the contemplation of metaphysical Dharma and philosophical truths it's who we're spending time with and why we're spending time with them is even more important than that which means which means skill in this case do the people that I associate with want are they interested in in Liberation the way I'm interested in it usually the answer is no and I don't know if you've had the experience Gilbert um when when we have spiritual friends we spend time with a spiritual friend or someone who at least theoretically wants to be free as much as we do we often feel uplifted in their company simply because we are they give us permission we give them permission to express their spiritual aspirations on unself-consciously and so when we give them that permission they give us that position it's it's in it's spiritually intoxicating and profoundly uplifting so um now you have to understand Gil I'm a fanatic so I'm utterly one pointed so what I'm teaching here is what I live and this is all that I do I have no other life I have no other interests so I'm a fanatic I'm a freak so so don't use me as the example but but I am I'm basically only associate with people that are interested in in the teaching in my teaching I'm friendly with other people but we don't we don't go very deep together because superficial friendships friendships don't set don't set my heart on fire I mean just so I'm just answering your question so so it's my in my experience of teaching for all these years that I know that um these spiritual friendships that are based upon the shared aspiration provide the very foundation for the for the kind of experiences that we've been talking about and and we can and we'll support our own deepest metaphysical aspirations like nothing else can and will now when is when is when when it goes wrong it's terrible because if there's a betrayal of trust then it can be deeply upsetting not just because not just because of the broken trust on a personal level but because the broken trust can also shake one's confidence or faith in the Ultimate Reality itself in these kinds of contexts so it's very delicate but that's why in this teaching I always say the foundation of the teaching and you know about the five tenants in the first tenant as I've spoken to about is wanting to be free more than anything else so I believe I Want to Be Free more than anything else so if I Want to Be Free more than anything else no one will be able to stop me and that means no matter what happens I'm in this for the Long Haul whether things work out with the so-and-so or don't work I would so and so I just wanted that one I'm into the Long Haul and I'm gonna I'm and I'm not gonna let anything get in my way so we have to be committed to the ultimate outcome no matter what so even if things go sour or South for whatever reason because these things are unpredictable we're not going to lose our way and um right so just to add all to that that a lot of us most of us have to go out and mingle out in the world with a whole variety of different types of people different crazy people yeah so and um you know I work with companies I work with um Boards of directors and such and you have to go in they my clients have to be in a room with a lot of very well you say crazy people you know even dangerous malevolent people you know wow sociopaths you know there's the Dark um the dark Trinity uh or Trilogy of um Triad Triad of leadership narcissism machiavellianism and psychopathy so you know these people are in these rooms and sometimes they're the clients and you have to interact and you have to actually form some kind of working alliances with these people I have to pay a lot of money for that um well you know some people work in those companies or they're employed by those you know employed by a you know sociopathic boss for example it sounds absolutely terrifying when you're describing well it is but you know you know what I'm talking about you've you've heard of this before um so what's the question the you know what can you do what can anyone do to take precautions and you know what are the dangers also you know how do you choose well I mean these are questions that are interesting to me because sometimes you can have an association with someone who might not be the right kind of person but they will lead you to another person who is the right kind of person you know following one's intuition and is an interesting practice yeah but it sounds like it sounds like a jungle it is a Jungle full of Barbarians wow the animals well yeah you know there's we have we all have our inner Barbarian our inner Viking and imagine being in Ukraine right now or or being in a in a refugee camp somewhere yeah absolutely you know what do you do you know and what Sahara was saying you know being being in a hospital I'd worked in a hospital I've seen people die in ICU units so I have been there and uh I've had to move dead bodies um literally off stretchers and onto gurneys and such um and you know the idea of how do you how do you approach that in an enlightened way I mean not so much the hospital so much just being in a boardroom with with very secular ego egocentric narcissistic people yeah oh my God I I just want to get out of there everyone I I I can't imagine I can't imagine subjecting myself to that kind of torture oh it's really unpleasant but most you know a lot of people need to do that kind of work they're employed by big companies do you do you feel the skill that you're helping these people to become more humble but that's humility is one of the top virtues I talk about do they listen to you no some of them do some of them don't you know it can take years to get through to some people tell me about it yeah you know I've had people talk to me after 20 years and say you know I didn't realize the stuff that you were talking to me about 20 years ago was so good but I I wish I listened more back then well I sympathize sympathize with you but I'm not sure how to advise you on this one well I I really like what Sahara I mean Sahara had a great question that resonated with me enormously um you know I have to go to the supermarket I I stand in the queues to you know the checkout cues you know and and I feel I feel the energy of people or I you know these are not necessarily Pleasant places yeah life is a so I just wondered if you had any insights or um well I I mean I I feel I feel like uh I've always felt since I've been since I met my teacher I've always felt that um that my goal is to be in this world for the highest reasons so I I feel very much uh you know and despite being just I know it's not my delusion it's actually how I really feel I feel like on a mission being here I don't I don't I'm not here just to live a personal life I'm here to have to help to help people to discover the deepest the deepest Beauty and meaning and purpose of life so that that's what makes that's what makes being here so bearable is because if because I'm able to transmit that to people then I feel that it's it's worth it it's worth it living is worth it and it's worth it to be here if we can make a difference if we can help people to wake up if we can help people to find happiness purpose and meaning this is just my personal feeling and justifies our existence and for for most of us I think we need to we need to feel that our that our life is inherently worthwhile and meaningful not not just because they're not just because of good feelings but because we're doing something here that makes that makes it that matters I think that's really important I totally agree absolutely yeah we're gonna have a weak retreat in our in France in August I wanted to encourage you if you if you have any interest to come because I think if you spend some time with me in an environment like that I think a lot of your questions would be answered in ways that would take a lot longer Time online so continue to show up but if you feel so compelled I wanted to just gently encourage you in a friendly way sounds um delightful yes I love wine and cheese me too okay so we can have some wine and cheese together all right thank you anything else Daniella there's one more question I have from Marjorie she is saying do you believe that soul mates will continue to communicate after one of them has passed on to the other side if so how might that be expressed Marjorie I don't know I don't know the answer but I am metaphysically helpful for example I met a psychic once who was helping me when I was in a particularly difficult moment extremely difficult moment in my own life and I had lost my best friend who was a Yorkshire terrier a couple of years before where I still missed desperately and this this is a powerful psychic I mean she obviously had some connection to a certain kind of depth that I didn't and she said to me that when I died he would be waiting for me on the other side and I didn't know if I really believed it but I certainly sounded good I was so helpful that it was true and then I lost another dog I'm living in Indiana I lost another dog two years ago I had a big big Belgian German Shepherd who was the most the kindest most intelligent handsome beautiful being I'd ever met in my life and he he died he died he died because he ate some rat poison in the street accidentally and he died a very painful death suddenly and it was so utterly painful to lose him and I was helping similarly that I would see him again but um I I don't know I don't I don't know how to answer your question because I honestly don't know the answer I'm very I have a very uh I'm very open-minded about these these things but I I also try to try to be scientific as I can so I don't I don't know the answer but I like I think you know as people are saying you know you hear a lot and the people a lot of people have near-death experiences say well you know you're our relatives are going to be waiting for you on the other side but I thought sometimes do I really want to meet my relatives my relatives and then maybe not you know maybe maybe maybe there's some other people have spent eternity with I don't need to be rude so I don't I have no idea but I I do know that the universe is much more complex and mysterious than I have even begun to realize so many things are possible that are beyond my own mind's ability to grasp around grows at the moment so so my answer to your question is I don't know well that's a very honest and helpful question because I often tap into the I don't know and uh but I want to know so that longing to know is is very present right now I just lost a dear friend two weeks ago and we were soul mates and we had never seen each other in person wow we had met and of course that we took online from Barbara marks Hubbard back in 2014. I see and we wanted to continue uh our contact with each other after that course ended so we met uh online or not actually over the phone she was not a very technological person so she didn't have a smartphone so she was on a landline and I was on my iPhone and we talked with each other two or three hour long conversations every Wednesday at 11 A.M since 2014 almost without fail wow and uh we were soul mates and we never actually saw each other in person I have pictures of her now I'm in process of creating a tribute video to her using uh photographs and and music and I have a I have one conversation that I recorded the audio an hour and 45 minutes of her and I speaking together and that's what I have and and I'm in process of grieving and um and I just really would like to have some way to continue our deep conversations with each other from the other side most important thing is that you loved each other no oh yes and so no no when people when people acknowledge their love for each other and especially when it's as deep as you're saying that is that they can be they can be a glimpse of the potential in eternity eternity yes I I heard I think it was Ken Wilbur described the word eternity not as um forever um amount of time but a forever amount of timelessness yes that's fantastic that's very good yeah that's and so from that perspective I think you know I it helps and and I just some of the deep conversations that we had we we both believe that Consciousness lives on Beyond Death there you go yeah so so and we have that and and we still have that and um but but I am allowing myself to go through the process of grieving because I've done that many times already in my life and and it's a necessary and I've I've actually come to see that grieving is a for me has become part of my spiritual practice and I I think of it as a sweet sorrow you're describing it very beautifully thank you very good all right thank you very much yep that's it very good thank you everybody thank you very much