Is Evolution Sacred? Rupert Sheldrake & Andrew Cohen

this is part of a creative urge we could become aware of our connection to the the cosmos and this vast evolutionary process but the question is where's it going and does it just go ever and onwards and upwards forever until we get more and more enlightened more and more cosmically aware or does there come a point where there's some kind of culmination of the whole Cosmic evolutionary process the judeo-christian vision which has given us this vision of of a progressive development in time has always had the idea that there's an end or a goal that somehow it doesn't just go on and on forever it's leading somewhere and um the original Vision was a very limited one you know it was the Prototype of this entire spiritual journey of is is the Journey of the people of Israel out of Egypt in bondage through the Wilderness to the promised land the promised land was supposed to be where it ended but then as now it turned out to be full of Palestinians so it didn't work out as they' hoped and so it had to be projected into the future um and um so there's always been this sense that the the the Russian the Revolution in Russia the Communist Vision was that the revolution would happen then the state would wither away that be the end to ordinary history there some it's leading somewhere now what's your vision of that is there an end or is it just onwards and upwards forever or is there some kind of conceivable end to this process or transformation to a different level absolutely in terms of where it's all going um I I have a very big picture idea of all this which is you know this this leads towards the realm of fantasy but I mean I don't know one else one can do so if if if the if the traj would go from something like you know energy and light to matter to life to Consciousness if that's been if we stand way back from the process if we can say you know energy light to matter to to life to Consciousness we if we if we see that there's a there's there's a direction there the way I would the way I would understand it is that the is that the urge to the the it seems that the there's it seems that the direction or the toos of the entire creative process is towards Consciousness itself and if and it would seem that the that the urge towards Consciousness would be fulfilled or would be ultimately completed when all the matter in the cosmos had become enlightened which means conscious so when all the matter in the cosmos had become fully enlightened we would say then the the primordial urge if that's what it is would be would be vanquished it would be it would be released it would be fulfilled now as I see it and obviously RI and I don't see i' eye on this but that doesn't matter but it seems that that process has really barely begun because if if if we are a large part of the matter in the universe that has become conscious as far as we know and understand and we know how unconscious many of us are anyway you can start to see that from from from the biggest point of view that we're that we are at the very beginning of a of a process that is going to that is that is is such is of such infinite proportions that it is impossible to conceive of but I but I can tell for example that what drives me is an urge to is an urge towards Consciousness and an urge to have people become more conscious because it's a compulsion and you can start you can start to see that that that when all the matter in the universe would became fully conscious which is an inconceivable possibility if we start to think rationally but all the matter in the universe becoming conscious well he asked me where is it all going when all the matter in the universe would become conscious fully cons all turned to light which would be a met Consciousness the metaphor for Consciousness is light when all the matter in the universe turned to light then then then every everything would uh then that primordial impulse would be bankish and fulfilled and I believe that's where it's all heading but in the meantime we have a lot of work to do yes well let me just perhaps we should WRA this up but I let me just say that I think that perhaps the in some sense the matter in the universe is already conscious you see that I think that the that the idea that God's in the sky can be treated as some kind of primitive childish idea but it can also be treated as the idea that the entire universe is fillmed with Consciousness already and that the the stars and the galaxies may be conscious as I was saying before that there may be already a Consciousness throughout the whole universe of which we're unaware and it may be that it hasn't come to full self-awareness because that depends on us exct us that I would agree with yes yes so it may depend on us but I think it's better off I think we're better off thinking that there's already a large degree of Consciousness throughout the Universe and perhaps that extra awareness comes from us rather than somehow by our own conscious development we're going to inject Consciousness into the rest of the universe seems to me implausible I think it's already no I I agree I agree with that it's believed and understood you know that by some you know that that Consciousness goes all the way down all the way up from from right that there's always interiority in atoms and in and in subatomic particles there's always an interior and whenever there's interiority there's some degree some capacity for Consciousness so I would certainly agree with that but what but but it's the it's when Consciousness awakens to itself that's when that's when um that's when everything comes alive so I I so I think we agree on that yes okay