Andrew Cohen- Hold Onto Nothing

almost every time with some few exceptions that I do go to teach I have no idea what to say isn't that funny so like let's say in the last three weeks I was in Vienna uh Hamburg cologne Rome Paris the south of France right so I did a hell of a lot of talking in the last three weeks and I was amazing to me to to think on the way down here that I had no idea what to talk about and uh this is really the state I live in almost all the time which is one where I have no no sense it's very funny because the the way the audience is already spread out it'd be nice if it was a little closer that I have no I don't really have any sense of knowing anything and uh and whenever I have to go teach of course it always does come out it's never failed me so you don't have to worry I'm not trying to make anybody nervous but uh that's part of the fun is uh is part of the fun for me it's I wouldn't want anybody else to have to go through do it but but one reason that it's part of the fun is that um is I think that because the teaching that uh the teaching that comes out of me is is not anything that I that uh I really can hold on to myself uh whenever I do teach uh it's always very fresh but unfortunately for it to remain fresh and and and very free um and uncorrupted hopefully by my own need to feel secure um I have to pay a price for it which is always being empty-handed and what it means to be empty-handed is that one really has no conscious sense of knowing anything in particular you see and one has no sense of knowing anything in particular and at the same time uh there's a very deep deep deep uh sense of confidence and of trust and some people would also call it surrender and this is actually what I've been speaking quite about a lot about over the last um three weeks or so and it's what I it's what I've been calling really the the the Paradox of Enlightenment and the par the Paradox is very much really the the one that the one that I live and uh and and therefore this is what I'm trying to really share with people and it has to do with this this Paradox has to do with exactly what I've been speaking about tonight which is really on the level of the personality or that place where we we know we do exist as an individual right who has definitely had a personal history in time and space that part of ourself uh can lay no claim to or seem to find in any way any particular uh object in Consciousness that uh that can be said to be that you know that meaning God Truth for knowledge right so you can just imagine what it would be like to be yourself I mean we're all of course we're all individuals here I think I think we're all individuals and uh so you can just imagine what it would be like to be exactly who you were right now you know I'm exactly who I am and you're all exactly who you are you're all exactly who we're all as individuals exactly who we are right now exactly as unpleasant as that may be to some of you but anyway uh I didn't mean to offend anybody but I I'm just I've been teaching almost for 10 years so I I I have a pretty good sense of how a lot of people feel about themselves so I'm just daring to be honest and sometimes sometimes people appreciate it and a lot of times they don't but anyway just to imagine being fully who one was right now without anything necessarily being any different nothing being different that means there's no uh no Golden Light you know that's flickering out out there in a ball that you can be sure that everything's okay because that Golden Light that ball of golden light is there to help you feel it God is somehow taking care of you and you don't have anything to worry about right so I'm speaking about being exactly really as one is right at this very minute but but the the difference might be or uh the difference might be that one would be uh one would be no long one wouldn't be seeking for anything there wouldn't be any sense of insecurity that from which one would be seeking to escape from right and of course the reason that many people enter into spiritual life and spiritual practice and go to see spiritual teachers of course is to escape from the burden of insecurity so imagining that one was not trying to escape from the actuality of One's Own condition in any way shape or form right one wasn't trying to add anything to it one was simply simply being with it and uh and not making any effort to be with it they're not making any effort whatsoever so there wasn't any struggle to change and was one was simply who one was except one wasn't seeking for anything at all so in that condition that I'm speaking about um there's nothing particular there there's nothing particular there except trust you see except a very uh except a very unusual kind of trust that uh a trust that is so deep that it really allows want to let everything be as it is without needing to struggle without needing to make any effort without needing to add anything without needing to push anything away okay so the trust is so deep you see that one doesn't need to constantly look for some way to feel secure and uh and that's really what makes the the miracle of of of of enlightenment uh possible and and so what I'm speaking about is is really what I'm trying to describe to everybody I'm trying try to describe is really to help people because many people feel that that that that Spiritual Awakening involves really adding some particular quality to 's experience that uh that that once it is experienced in other words peace Joy Bliss light something like something nice like that that that once this particular quality is added to one's own experience then the presence of this particular quality the right in and in one's Consciousness or awareness of that particular quality will give one a sense of security oh the peace is there that means everything's okay that means I'm enlightened I'm free or the joy is there that means everything's okay that means I'm free or the Liss for those who'd be lucky enough for that is there and that means everything's okay you know this kind of thing right so then so basically people are seeking to somehow cultivate you know in some somewhere or to cultivate the presence of some particular attribute right some cultivate the presence of some particular uh quality in one's own experience and once that particular once that particular quality is discovered and has been cultivated peace Joy bless light something like that then uh once it's been cultivated and experienced and one begins to derive a great sense of of security from that then one of course would uh begin to do everything that one could to to to sustain that particular experience right peace Joy Bliss light or whatever it is and as long as that particular particular quality exists then that means that God exists and that everything's okay because as long as we as long as the individual of course has deep faith that God actually exists and it's not just some mere pipe dream then of course every everybody feels good so I personally at least I personally don't think that what I just described has anything necessarily do to do with Enlightenment or to do with what real freedom is all about and I think that's really why kind of wanted to describe it because if we can really if we can really uh understand what it is I was just saying or what I was trying really trying to describe it had to do I was just describing the cultivation of the cultivation of a certain kind of experience right a certain kind of experience in this case which may be a very pleasant experience but the presence of any particular experience including all the pleasant ones I just described does not in itself uh necessarily have anything to do with freedom or Enlightenment or or the attainment of of really of of true knowledge of true you know true know know direct knowledge and wisdom and i' I'd actually say uh to the contrary I'd say to the contrary that that that what the state of Enlightenment is really all about is very much the opposite of what I just described and and it has to do with the discovery of such a profound Trust in life in life and also in oneself right we have to trust oursel also because we you have to trust yourself enough to be able to trust in life and that's kind of a difficult thing apparently for most people to do so discovering such trust in life and of course once I said we have to trust ourselves enough to be able to do that that there's no holding on to anything there's no holding on to anything even Bliss even Bliss and Bliss of course of course will come and it probably will go you know not maybe not in in all cases but usually that's usually how it works and of course if one is a true seeker and there aren't there aren't that many of those around but if one is a true Seeker a true Seeker after you know genuine Liberation then one is is going to sooner or later going to experience Bliss and find out what that's all about but to be free one isn't even holding on to that one isn't clinging on to that for any sense of security one isn't really cling on to anything and that's right and if we can I begin to understand what it means not to cling on to anything at all because of course if we can't cling on If part of the the if the rules of being free means we can't cling on to anything even those things that give us you know that make us feel happy like peace joy and Bliss then of course right we have to we have to be doing willing to do something much more difficult which is not cling on to fear doubt and confusion and it's believe me it's much more difficult for most human beings to let go of fear doubt or confusion or not to cling on to them then it is to let go of Peace Joy or Bliss that's very interesting what I just said and happens to be true that it's much more difficult for most human beings to let go of fear doubt or confusion than it is right which which means it's to be without to be without them right to not hold on to them at all it's much more difficult and much more challenging at least for most of the people that I've met and I've met quite a few by this point than it is um to not cling on to the experience of Peace Joy or Bliss and if what I'm saying is true and I personally have no doubt that it is but that doesn't necessarily mean it's absolutely true but in any case if what I'm saying is true then I you know I think the implications of what I'm saying should be rather obvious I hope they are I don't know if they are but I hope they are so so if we're not Clinging On to anything at all right then anything's possible and that's really the whole point if we're if if we whoever we are if who who if we whoever we are and wherever we're located are no longer on to anything at all whatsoever and are not making any Trace have come to that point have come so far where we're no long we no longer need to make any trace of effort no no longer need to exert our will the power of our will uh in any way shape or form any longer in order to not cling on to anything right that that would mean that nothing would stick to us and that would mean that our trust had had uh been cultivated cultivated or realized to such a degree that that was okay because of course personally it has to be okay with us for each and every individual for each and every individual for each of each and every one of us personally of course it has to be okay with us for most people it's not okay that that degree of submission to the chaos of human experience which is life but the life that we all live as human beings that that is something that is believe me not really very attractive to most people and and and uh and more than that is something that most human beings do have do find quite unbearable quite unbearable quite unbearable quite overwhelming even terrifying but but to be honest if we want to be free if we truly want to be free then that's really what it's all about it's really what uh one way to understand really what what the goal of of genuine Liberation is all about because you know because if we're not holding on to anything whatsoever any longer All Things become possible All Things become possible and when All Things become possible what that means is that we because we as individuals whoever we are because we as individuals are no longer cling onto anything whatsoever that that is really synonymous with with with the state that is that is uncorrupted and if and if it can be sustained uncorruptible it's what I'm speaking about is very delicate it's very subtle and I and I and not that many people seem to be able to do it but if it can be done it's a state that is uh absolutely pure and uncorruptible because uh because nothing is being held and when I'm saying nothing is being held I'm not only speaking about feelings you know Spirit spiritual feelings or unspiritual feelings whatever they may be but also ideas thoughts ideas and thoughts and beliefs also MH and if we can find a way to to be fully you know to be fully who we are and that's what I said before as each and every one of us is right now which also of course never to forget and always have to remind people listening to me that I'm speaking about us so obviously I'm speaking about human beings I'm not speaking about anybody else um if we are able to to let go to the degree I'm speaking about being fully human being who who we are and and and everything that that uh being fully human always implies not avoiding any of that then then then we would have come to a point realize a state of consciousness where where we we were because we were no no no longer holding on to anything whatsoever uh we would have realized a degree of awakeness and alertness and attentiveness and receptivity that uh that would make it possible for us to do to see very deeply and to know very deeply all the time and if we want to be free to see very deeply I think is something that what is something that I think we have to become interested in more than just trying to more than just wanting to feel good because it's very possible in the name of in the name of One's Own spiritual Evolution to kind of hypnotize oneself through some kind of spiritual recipe and through this kind of self hypnosis we actually become rather dull and rather stupid and that really doesn't have anything to do with the kind of depth that I'm speaking about here but in order to really in order to experience the kind of depth that I'm speaking about and in order to be able to not only experience it once but enable but in order to be able to sustain it uh personally we have to be willing to uh to go quite far you see and by going quite far it doesn't mean adding more and more uh spiritual experiences to our um to our Identity or sense of self but it really has to do with quite the opposite of that it has to do with quite the opposite of that which is really letting it all go including all the experiences also that some some people may have had and if if we can do that and once we've done it once we've learned how to do once if we can keep sustain that well then then it'll all be there it'll all be there and what will be there well what will be there is it has to do with this the the Paradox that I that I mentioned ear the Paradox of in light what will be there is absolutely nothing on one hand absolutely nothing at all and I literally mean that literally mean that absolutely nothing and on the other hand um absolute trust and that's it nothing more than that you don't need nobody needs more than that is all that's all anybody needs to get through this particular Adventure that we're all on in this particular Dimension at this particular time that's all we need and unfortunately if you add more if you add much more than that um it's very difficult to keep it very clean and very pure so maybe we can say quietly for a few minutes together you know one of the one of the problems I think with human life is that there seems to be so much between the individual and uh and their and their and the rest of Life there seems to be so much between the individual and the rest of life and also and and and apparently uh very much between between the individual ual and actuality and of course what lays between what you know what what lies between the individual and the rest of Life other people actuality um are so many of the ideas and preconceptions that we have about ourself about others and about about life as a whole including you know including ideas we have about the spiritual domain of life but the degree of of separation and isolation that that so many people claim to experience and a de degree of conflict that seems to be an almost acceptable part of human life um can be seen you know as being a result of the fact that that that that most people are really is somehow very separate from and and and and apart from really the the the core of life or really being in touch with life seems to be so much between the individual and life itself right and that's why most people seem to to live in this kind of self-created cocoon so in the condition of the state that I was trying to describe to you before we sat quietly together um there really isn't anything there there really isn't anything there there's only trust which really isn't a thing in itself anyway trust really is the absence of tension or fear or intimidation I mean trust is not really a trust if you if one really looks deeply trust is not an object trust trust is not a thing it's not a feeling really it's not it's if we look closely we find that trust is really the absence of feelings and ideas right trust is the absence of fear so actually trust isn't really a thing I just learned that tonight I never knew that before so so therefore therefore in the state I was describing and I'm describing there really isn't anything there there's only the absence of those qualities that make it so difficult for us to be uh truly in touch with life that's it was not the addition of anything at all but really the absence of so many of the uh so many things that create so much misery not only for us as individuals but I mean I think for the race as a whole now because I'll I'm G to definitely give time for asking questions don't worry we're almost there because because there's because there's nothing there or because there is an absence of so many of the um feelings and thoughts and ideas that make it so difficult for us to experience life directly and to see clearly and uh and experience real depth uh because there is is is an absence of those things we we're able to see clearly and we're able to be in touch we are in touch and when we are you see when we are that when we are in touch in a sense there's really nothing between us whoever we are there's literally nothing between us whoever we are and and and in reality in life is in life is nothing at all literally nothing at all and if there's literally nothing at all between us whoever we are and wherever whever we are in the rest of life then uh then then this is could could be understood as a as as as what as what Unity is really all about or what it means to not be separate and separate from what separate from Life as a whole not being separate literally means that that's what unity means also it means nothing apart from the whole okay so being so being not separate and being that much in touch with life enables us to experience directly you know the the truth of our own nature right this truth of our own nature or uh or another way to put it is also like the source of our own nature the very source of it because you see I mean all the these layers layers you see that that layers that create this this sense of isolation separation Fall Away these are these layers are ideas and they beliefs when they all fall away when all the layers Fall Away uh then something is on is is uncovered something something that of course has always been there it has always been there but it hasn't been apparent to us or it has not been directly experienced most of the time because because it's because it has been covered is is is is is a very source of our own true nature right and uh you know and the different religions have different names for it right but it's it's the source it's the ultimate source and absolute s ultimate source of who we all are right when there's no when there's absolutely no identification with any fixed notion of self with any notion of being separate whatsoever literally and absolutely and this Source or this one mind right is is is known is recognized is is is is discovered and is directly experienced you see and that one mind of course is the source is the source of all wisdom and all uh true knowledge when I speak about true knowledge I'm not speak about physics I hope you know that I assume you do it has to do with knowledge of the self right the self that I'm speaking about of course is is is the one self which we all are and when that is ex is discovered and when it is discovered and directly experienced and recognized as that as one's own as one's own true self then uh this is what's called self-realization [Music] that's really what it's all about okay someone had their hand up yes hello okay um yeah most of the talk has been about um what enlightenment means Could you um say something about your opinion of how to get there that's what it was all about that's what the whole talk was about actually believe it or not and it actually wasn't about what enlightenment means we haven't gotten into that at all tonight about what it means but I was um uh I was kind of uh it was kind of a spontaneous teaching you know which was really which was you know really all about you know how to be completely free you see because I I as if you heard what I was saying I was speaking about holding on to nothing okay so that's you know that in itself is quite a lot to wrestle with so then says hold on to nothing what could it mean to hold on to nothing right so if we then we begin to look into what it means to hold on to nothing then we have to begin to find out what are we holding on to if we're holding on to anything and the chances are pretty good to okay so then the question is what one what is one holding on to and then when that when that begins to be uncovered then we begin to find out why we're such a mess and why the world is such a mess you see and then we begin to find out when when many of these ideas that we have and that and many of the ideas that we're holding on to in order to be who we are and in order to feel comfortable and secure in being who we are uh when they when when we part with them uh what will be experienced automatically is uh it's a lightness lightness of being right it's what happens when if you something very heavy and you put it down suddenly there's a there's a sense of being very light of course nothing has been gained nothing has been gained right but we have been relieved of the burden of carrying something with us that was weighing us down of course and when we put that down then lightess of being is experienced right in likeness of being is experienced you know and all you know as peace Joy or Bliss okay and then and then I was speaking about the the danger of of identifying the the lightess of being itself right as being the object or or the goal you know right because I I I I said then what would happen is the attention would become very narrow not very wide and expansive that would have come very nrow and fixed only upon that particular quality of experience I spoke about the danger of that so I was really you know going through quite a lot of detail about describing what it means to hold on to nothing and and then as a result and then I was trying to describe how holding on to nothing what what becomes possible you see when we hold on to nothing when we're willing to risk that much and let ourselves go that far was describing what becomes possible what actually can happen and I was in the end I was describing really you just a few minutes ago the Imp personal nature of it how what it's all leading to is is a is is discovery of oneself of you know of of being that the one self that we all are when there's no when there's no notion of difference and and I'm speaking about something is that is actual that is literal that is not that that is uh yeah that can be experienced literally yeah okay all right yes you have to wait for that it's very cold I can't believe it feel like the winter oh um [Music] when you talk about taking the risk to be free of everything of having no attachment to anything including ideas and past or or including love and things like that including everything at all and then you are nothing say can you still I mean do does that mean you can have no conscious choice of a purpose in life other than being free yes okay very good okay so that's good in that case if everyone were free yeah then there would be nothing h no that's not true no well no there would there no nothing means no problem yeah that's what it means nothing nothing me means no problem but what we would have is uh Paradise okay right in this in Imagine inste in in the place of this miserable World we're living in there would be paradise that's what the result would be but if people gave up their attachment to perhaps showing the way to other people how would those other people find it if people stopped W well if one was attached to showing the way to other people then obviously that would be there would be a problem there exactly so how would other people find out yeah but I but there's a presumption there there's a presumption I don't know how we got to this but anyway there's a there's a presumption there' be some presumption that whoever the person is that was showing the way and I suppose you're talk about me tonight so I'm the guilty one no but anyway I'm just I'm just going that one step farther to clear up any potential that what you're talking about yeah that if there was some uh there's a presumption that there would be some kind of attachment to a particular role right for for some kind of yeah that would have some kind of negative consequence but that really came out of the blue okay can I just say are all attachments negative are all well it depends the way we're using the word all attachments to be got ridden of to got to be gotten rid of no I understand but all depends on the way we're using the word so I for example would would say that it would be very good to be attached to becoming a liberated and profoundly sane human being that's something very that would be good to be attached to that okay so the answer would be no but of course it all depends on the way in the way we're using the words now in the way that I was speaking a few minutes ago yes even even that in that in what I was describing there's nothing there is literally nothing there there is no there there's no sense of knowing anything right there's no sense of knowing anything particular or of being anyone in particular so if what I'm saying is true if what I'm saying is true that there's no attachment to knowing anything in particular or there's no sense sorry there's no sense of knowing anything in particular and no sense of being anyone in particular then the attachment you're speaking about isn't there not in what I was describing there's nothing there I said ex said except this trust and then I said the trust is not a thing but it it's it's what's there but it's an absence of absence of of things okay thanks and then I was saying what becomes possible then you see because look in that in in what we've been speaking about together there there is nothing there's no one there's no one particular you you can't right you can't be found there's no one there's no individual there are no individuals there's no contrasts right there's simply nothing right but in that in that nothing there's no fear there's no doubt and there's no there's no from from nowhere it's arising any need to move to move away to move towards anything it to move away from anything there isn't anything now the result of that condition of that state right is freedom right is freedom right it's freedom and also I was describing that then there is no longer any um barriers to knowledge to tr to self right to self-realization to to tr to to the source of all knowledge to to to that one mind to the one mind of which we all are you see there's no there's no there's no separation then and and that is that is that expresses itself but what's so interesting is that in the discovery of that in the realization of that in the expression of that there's no attachment to it and therefore there's not even any identification with it this is the beauty of it this is It's called Purity this is it seems to me that what why all it seems to me what we're what we're learning or knowing is or hearing is um kind of a preview to what we'll get in the next life it's like the next life no not me that's not my style no way all right forget this life okay but what I mean is forget about who there is no next life forget it don't believe all that stuff the minute you start beli you know why you know why because the minute you start saying oh yeah that's for the next life it means it means that one's relationship to this life will be a little bit more casual because you see yeah no no at all it means that that you don't give up on this life oh my God no no are you were you a Buddhist SP not at all oh no okay just just checking I'm sorry no no I I probably just taking too much time again you're not taking too much time no this is I just mean that if in order to be free as as you talked about in order to to risk giving up on everything in order to just trust and have a relationship that isn't separate or individual then it seems to be we may it it sounds very much like a soul like a what like being just a pure soul uhhuh and not being in a physical state doesn't that sound very interesting yeah but that's that's that's it yeah but but the point is nothing wrong with that I know no no I I understand that but um in my talk I I was speaking about I was speaking about all of us right now as we are right now I said and as we are means including our fully Human Condition yeah I I said that I think I said it twice oh I I know you said oh good so I'm not speaking about being disembodied I know you're not oh good I I'm not sorry I'm not suggesting that you mean that I'm just saying that the attainment that we're after by having nonattachment is very much a pure state right and a soul state was there something impure about uh the meid here to me what no oh good okay well then we're really communicating okay thank you but the whole point the whole point is that the whole point is that what what it was I was describing and what it means to be a fully human being embodied are not are not are not separate in any way that's that's that's the miracle of it that's the point it's all right good so very challenging but very challenging but very fascinating what I've been speaking about tonight what's so challenging about you see is is is is the emptiness that I've been trying to trying to trying to describe you see that's what that's just the beauty and it's the beauty of it but it's also the most challenging aspect really of the teaching and I think it's really the most challenging aspect of of Enlightenment itself because it's very difficult for human beings to be able to realize everything and let it all go see this is this this is the This Is The Perennial this is the perennial I think human spiritual predicament this is why they religious wars which has to do with the personalization the person you know the personalization not only of the very mundane Human Experience but of religious experience and when human beings personalize religious experience and you know and we just find you know we discovered the the mess it's a big it's a mess of confusion and conflict that doesn't have anything to do with the truth itself yes hello okay I was just um wondering um do you think the fact that um humans are so dependent on language and words and um yeah verbal descriptions are stuff that's one of the reasons we've gotten into such a mess no no I I don't think that words thought and thought is not the problem thought is not the problem and um and speech is not the problem right because thought and speech happen to be uh great gifts that our particular species uh is fortunate enough fortunate enough to uh possess but I think and so what I'm saying is it's it's not thought or speech that really is the problem but it has to do with what really motivates us to interpret our experience in the way that we do see and I think that so speech thought and speech in and of it in and of itself never creates problems but what what motivates us to interpret our experience in the way that we do usually does right well I just know in my experience um I find it particularly easy to just cling on to verbal ideas or as you said before recipes and um you know from things you read and from from holding on to quotes or I don't know things that were said by people that are meant to know what they're talking about instead of letting you know letting go of that and um trying to orientate yourself on something which doesn't have any words well well how well okay but um actually sometimes if you cling on to um the words from someone who knows right uh what can happen is that is is is that those is that those words can catapult One Way Beyond The Familiar ground of One's Own conceptual framework into a completely new way of seeing and knowing that can't happen that's why that's why human beings throughout history have uh have studied you know the the teachings of people who were supposed to have known or maybe actually did know or and and also listen to them speak um not because they're interested in Philosophy for its own sake but because it's through listening to the words of someone who knows can actually uh give one a direct experience of going Beyond one's own Concepts okay something that's always puzzled me uh in contemplating the profound Letting Go being in a state of no thingness is that our body appes is obviously our body yeah mind is still arising while we're back here presumably in no thingness there's the body mind what is our relationship to that body when in a state of total Unity is it an autopilot is it purified in any way uh well I think you fin the answer to the to the question in in in actually reorienting or deepening one's uh appreciation and understanding of what Liberation is really all about so Liberation uh in the way that I understand it is not simply you know an escape from the personality from the body from human life you see it's not an escape from it you seem surprised when I said that that was good right because we want to escape we can just blow our brains out or you know or just you know intoxicate ourselves you know from morning till night that's what escaping is all about so the point you see the the the the point of you said spiritual teachings and spiritual experiences and insight you see is is uh is all very much part of uh of evolution you see that I think True Religion like the religious impulse you know in in the race and the religious impulse in the individual is uh you know I I recognize you know as as as as an evolutionary impulse right as an Impulse to evolve okay so so the experience of insight of Letting Go you know of bliss reveals to us the way what's called the way and the way is how to be how to be what you know fully human how to be fully human right without right fully human means free from this kind of morbid attachment to selfishness to fear to ambition etc etc etc etc right because that's the point the point is not simply to experience some state that will remove us so delightly from the misery of the of of you know of this of this embodied experience that we'll be able to Bear it because we'll be experiencing so much Bliss we'll be able to Bear you know bear being here you know until the body drops and then thank God it's all over that's not I know you know many people do interpret it that way but I don't interpret it that way nor do I teach it that way I think the point the point of spiritual teachings you know and spiritual experiences and of insight is to help the individual to begin to evolve so to begin to evolve means to begin to find the way and recognize the way and also the reason why the way the way and also the reason why they should begin to let let go of this very U morbid and nasty and mean mean-hearted relationship to a very self self self self-centered uh relationship to life okay when that begins to happen of course the heart begins to open when the heart begins to open one begins to recognize what true love really means one realize love has nothing to do with receiving it has nothing to do with acquiring it has nothing to do with being the you know being the object of um attention for any particular individual it has to do with abandon it's you know love is really true love is really a metaphor for total and unconditional abandon with letting go right of everything right for for for life itself not for one's own sake you see not for one's own sake you see but for you know for life itself and that's when the glory you know there's a glory that's realized there's a glory and a majesty and a dignity that's realized we oh I see this is this this is the whole point the whole this is the whole point of this exercise this exercise called my life you know because one's own life right you know is then the one finds the meaning the meaning in it the mean there is the meaning to all this and the significance to it but the only way to directly experience it is that we have to be willing to let go so much in order to really begin to to taste it and to experience it to recognize it and then suddenly it all makes sense oh I get it you know I get it I'm just I'm not here just to you know just not to overcome my problems and to get you know as much happiness as I can you know you know you know while I can grab it right you see but but I'm I'm I'm here to give everything right as an expression also of the right in the that means in the big in the biggest hearted and Bigg biggest minded way we possibly can you see and then human then life human life suddenly begins to make perfect sense because all of this existential G like what the hell you know what what is what is why is all this happening why am I here I don't want I don't want to be here right because you know if one you know if one is reasonably intelligent and uh you know you know and and begins to question you know and I I don't think that many people really do question in a serious wife and when they do it's not for very long but anyway if one is reasonably intelligent and one actually does begin to question you see one one begins to come up it just none of it makes any sense none of it really makes any sense and then if we begin to listen to some of our greatest you know philosophers they tell us it doesn't make any sense so therefore if you so therefore if you know then you find Freedom and stop trying to and ceasing to try and make sense out of it and just you know and all the rest of it but uh so so the point of spiritual inquire inquiry and religious experience and insight uh the the goal of it is simply not a removal or an escape from but an ability to to ABS to to unconditionally let go into this event you see because most people aren't doing it you see most people don't when they go through life it's like it's like this you know it's that it means being defended protected you see that's what everything's kept away so what I'm describing is Letting Go unconditionally into into this event as terrifying as that as it appears you see and it's in and it's in that kind of letting go that one finds one's own really release one's own Liberation and also one finds you know the whole purpose of being here but that purpose is nothing to do with getting getting anything for ourselves right and in and and in recognizing that that's when one's un perfect Liberation is found in this very Life In This Very body you see and then and then the strug not only is the struggle over not only is this you know one's personal struggle over then but uh but then one finds oneself very you know very completely absorbed in in fully being who we are and doing what we're doing you see and so we don't have at that point the individual have doesn't have to struggle you know to to be here now or to bring their attention into the moment or any of that other nonsense because one is so fully immersed you see so fully when you when was fully IM we're so fully immersed you see in in in in the experience of being alive you see so fully fully immersive it means we're not holding anything back we're not holding anything back we're not keeping anything for ourselves we're not waiting for anything in the future so this this is this is we're fully released and fully released and then life is maybe being lived fully maybe for the first time probably for the first time the only time most people the only time they ever let go like that is maybe when they fall in love romantically you know for a few few days maybe a few weeks whatever it is maybe that's a big maybe but the only reason they're willing to let go then is because they're getting what they want you see then then they get to be you know Adam or Eve or whoever it is you know they get to be the only and most special one you see and so and so for that you know which is a lot that's quite a bit get so to get that then they're willing to let go but but the reasons for letting go then are very kind of morbid really very morbid and not really very um not really very special okay thank you for your question yeah okay uh when you're when you're speaking about Letting Go it I find at times that there isn't um a strong enough part of me that's in charge that can let go um the identification with the condition seems to have the the most powerful uh presence inside me um there is another experience I have which is when I meditate and over the last six months I've been doing that in the mornings and one of the rituals that I have is to kind of assure myself that this meditation period is only going to last like 30 minutes okay and that everything is okay those 30 minutes you can let go you can close your eyes you can forget about survival or forget about what you have to do afterwards and when it's over I assure myself that I can come back to solving the problems and dealing with the helplessness of life and all the conditions that are there uhuh but there isn't the real I mean at the end of that 30 minutes there is sometimes like a an after effect where for maybe 10 20 minutes afterwards I'm Still Still and I'm still feeling centered that's yeah that's a result of of of cultivating concentration when when one cultivates concentration then there is an experience of peace right yes but the peace that is experienced as a result of cultivating concentration and the Ecstasy of holding on to nothing have nothing to have almost nothing to do with each other they're completely different things people often mistake the peace that is experienced as a result of concentration as the Ecstasy of Liberation and they have nothing to do with each other okay okay they're two different things one is result of holding on to nothing you imagine like it's jumping out of an airplane and screaming wow like that okay but there's also there's no there's no land there there's no there is no play there's no there's no particular there's no fear of Landing hopefully for the lucky for the lucky for the lucky individual anyway for Okay so that right versus you know versus the um versus the versus the the pleasant you know feeling from being undistracted by the past or the future temporarily you know not troubled by they very different things so is how how do you make that bridge I mean if one is kind well the way the bridge is made is by beginning to uh cultivate an interest in in understanding what Liberation really means and what it's all about now most people that I'm okay all I do is this okay so basically 90 you know almost everybody that I meet are Seekers or people are interested in in spiritual matters and and Liberation so so what I found is you know that in spite of the fact that more and more people tend to be interested in the spiritual dimension of life more people tend to be reading spiritual books and all the rest of it and going to hear different speakers and traveling all over the world to see different teachers and all the rest of it um very few people seem to really know what enlightenment is all about okay because what I'm speaking about something very specific here and I know when I use that I mean I I really shouldn't be using that word but I can't help it I don't know what else to what else to use because it's such a loaded word and because people have so many ideas about it but so so the bridge really is beginning to acquaint oneself with what is it all about what what does it really mean what is it all about and that you know and that of course meditation would be a part of it but it's going to hear you know people you know who are supposed to know something about it going to hear them speak spending time with them reading you know and taking some risks with with one's own life you see and then you it's it's like anything you become interested in in when when you become very interested in it you have to begin to study it but ultimately you know this this kind of study is ultimately the study of oneself in the end the whole world disappears everybody else disappears all the all the spiritual teachers of the you know everybody disappears and you're only left with yourself that's where this study only leads one back to one's own experience in the end you see so ultimately the study of this this this study always leans one's back to one's own experience period and that's the it's the beauty of it but it's also what's so challenging about it but the way to bridge the gap is by becoming interested in the subject but I I think the more if you do become interested in this subject though you it gets very dangerous because then you start to find out oh my God this really is about me and when we say it's about me when one says it's about oneself you see it's about everybody always in every moment and the implications of what that mean um get bigger and bigger and bigger the more attention one gives to this subject you see and the point is you know then we begin to see it's not a game it's not a game and uh when we when when we begin to get in touch with what it's really all about we begin to get in touch you know directly with you know with the fact that that not allow I hope this doesn't sound to Absolute but not allowing oursel to be very con concerned about this is very dangerous because because because what we begin to find is that if we allow ourselves not to be concerned not to be very very concerned there is a the likelihood is that we are going to be allow is that we'll be allowing ourselves to uh to remain in you know in a state of ignorance in a state of sleep in a state in kind of a a stuper it means we'll be allowing ourselves to go through our own life which won't last forever in a stuper and when we're in a stuper we're seeing through a fog right and when we see through a fog we stumble around and when we stumble around we usually wreak havoc right okay so as so the more we look into this we begin to we begin to recognize that it is imperative that that we wake up from this stuper that this that this fog dissipates and they were're able to see very clearly so we'll know exactly what we're doing you see why so we will see sharq havoc and all the rest of it and the more we look into it we begin to see that this the absolute nature of this it doesn't have we begin to see it has nothing to do with personal preference like or dislike we begin to we begin to recognize uh in a sense the absolute nature of human life the nature of human life as it is as ourselves personally we begin to see oh my God this is me we we begin to see this is me and we begin to see that we are the problem you see so we turn on the TV and we see you know Bosnia or whatever horrible current tragic situation in some sense or other it's everything we're seeing outside ourselves is most of the time is an expression of our own confusion of our own stuper you understand what I'm saying and then and then we begin to see that this is imperative that that it's imperative that the human race as a whole comes out of this stup and we begin to see that we are the human race this is a direct realization we are the whole we're not separate from it in this case obviously where're the we're the race as a whole each and every one of us individually and then we begin to see the the enormous significance of our own personal Liberation right because now it can't be seen outside the context you see of of of of of all of life you see we begin to say we are the whole right and we can allow oursel to to we can allow our to continue this sort of self-deception it doesn't really matter what I do nothing matters nothing ultimately makes any difference we're all going to hell anyway this kind of thing or else right which is the easy way out it's it's the easy way out and uh it's the one it's you know it's the one which right many people choose but when we go in the other direction suddenly everything everything matters everything matters and we we we begin to recognize everything matters because it's not just about our own life anymore our own our own feelings how I feel today how I want to feel tomorrow it's about it's something we begin to Fe see that our our own life is is is never separate from you know from something very big and we are that you know we are that literally and literally and so if that's true then what it is we're actually doing right in our own life it becomes all important it becomes really really um it becomes a very serious matter but all but potentially very liberating also and then and then you know what we're then what what you know what we find out is how selfish we are or not how selfish we are how at that point when we've gone that far that we begin to see well to what degree do we want to cling on to our Neurosis our misery our delusion you know our pride or whatever whatever else it is you see what I'm saying then we find out then how much do we really we're using big words like love how much do we really care about love how much do we really care about love how much do we really care about it about goodness Etc and then it suddenly all becomes about us and it can be and so that that point unless it's something we really are interested in it's something we'd wish we never we never we never found out about it it'll be a curse it'll be tormenting us hopefully but anyway it you see It'll be like a curse you know just oh God things were you know as bad as things were before I knew about this they weren't this bad so that's why I said it's at your own risk but but this is this is true and this has been this has been borne out by by the by all the experience I've had over the years I've been and teaching you know seeing how you know seeing you know miraculously and you know in The Wonder of it how each and every individuals you know imag you know lives in this diluted state where they are so lost in the drama of their own personal life they really believe it's some very unique uh event but when but but but being in the position that I'm meant to meet hundreds and hundreds of people all speaking about really this fundamental questions you know you know it's it's basically the same it's it's basically the same the same the same predicament you know so this one's older this one's young younger this one's black this one's white this one's American this one's European or whatever it is but it's it's one predicament you see and each and every and each and every individual thinking oh this is some very special story it's my life my is very special have you heard about my you know it's not so the predicament itself is is one and the solution is one right and the experience of the predicament is the same for all more or less right and so and so is the experience of the solution and so then we have to find out what we're interested what kind of life we want to live and how you know and and yeah in what context we really want to live our own life what in what context do we want to meet others right and being an expression of the problem or an expression of the solution you get my point and it becomes very very big and then but the the beauty of looking at it this way is we can begin to see our own Liber we can then begin to see our own Liberation in a very big context and hopefully then hopefully then uh we won't fall into the Trap of our own spiritual um our spiritual life just being one big ego trip you know because if you meet a lot of seekers you know they're often they're they're more they seem to be more self-obsessed than than people who aren't even on spiritual paths because they're so concerned you know they're so looking at themselves all the time at the time you know and how they think how they feel you know with so much intensity that when you you know sometimes you make the mistake of saying how how are you you know and then and then what H and then you know nobody really wants to know anyway except great and then sometimes you know you get a half hour lecture and it's much like being tormented right or else or or then or or you know you know or or the opposite can happen that maybe maybe maybe maybe they're doing well maybe they've had some incredible re realization you know a few days earlier or whatever but still then there's very much the sense of it being mind it's being possessed it's being it's being owned then and how great it is for me and all the rest of it and it's you see what I'm saying so the whole point is is really in within you in what in what context are we really you know seeing our own life and one of and one of the I think one one of the most important things that I'm trying to share with people is is is trying to help people to begin to look and be able to see their own life within a very different context you see and that's really ultimately what can change change one's own life in a way that's very dramatic and yeah and and ultimately can have great great significance you know for for for a lot of people okay thank you okay yeah hi um I find that in letting go or yeah when I start to let go a lot of the time it feels quite unbearable it can be unbearably painful or you know even the Bliss whatever is unbearable and and that's when I try and well well particularly the last two months it feels a bit like you know I'm going to go mad or something so um so what's the good news well it's okay I mean that is actually okay but I see that because there are times when I feel like I am willing to go mad that's all right that that's nicer than being so bored with what you know this that in some ways that's nicer than being bored with the same all thoughts much nicer I would say but it's quite terrifying and that's when I find myself what are you GNA do life is quite terrifying isn't it don't you think it is really really look at you know what's going on here it's quite terrifying isn't it I see myself trying to sort of run away from that and go back into the fixed ideas which are very boring it's like a tape Loop just goes round and round and and that in in a sense is even more crazy than the craziness right it's this feeling of of going mad that I mean I haven't lost it yet but I think if I really do let go I'm going to lose it well well I mean have you ever been institutionalized no what no oh okay because the point is that um you know that spiritual Liberation is not something that one really should play with or can play around with you know it's something that ultimately is you know if if if we really do become overwhelmed by the Majesty of what I'm speaking about will be brought to our knees right by the weight and the force of what it is that's revealing itself to us so it's not something really that we can play with so the point is yes it's it's very it's a very big it's very big the whole matter is very big and I think that the instead of just jumping into you know meditation or certain you know playing around with certain questions like you know who am I and things like this I think the first thing the individual should do most people Z is really ask themselves you know what's you know what what's really important because often people jump into spiritual practice without really having looked very deeply you know into life themselves in a very serious way and ask themselves what's important because the point is when one has looked very deeply and and and really found what's truly important then then one is willing to Bear insecurity fear Maybe even Madness you know and even joy and even ecstasy a lot of things that are actually unbearable we're willing to Bear a lot more why because we know what's important because that's what makes it worth it you see but because most people haven't looked very deeply and they're still basically just looking to feel better personally they're um their threshold of Tolerance is very small so they think oh yeah I want to be free you know and then they begin you know to meditate or they go to see a powerful teacher or they begin to start playing around with some kind of uh questions you know that could that could have powerful effects on they're not really prepared for the consequences but like that you're saying that the more that I look the more horrifying it is and that's you know that's the more you know gets more scary I mean it look the point I I understand what you're saying but the the only solution to your question is really by really you know looking into life and deciding what's most important beyond beyond any doubt you see because at a certain point when you found when you make up your mind and it's come may we don't know what's going to nobody knows what's going to happen in the future we all might go mad you know after we leave here tonight okay I don't know what's gonna happen Okay but no one knows but in in the end it really doesn't matter once we know what the most important thing is in in a sense that's it's the beginning of the end of all our confusion you see and that's what that's what makes it possible for us to bear so much more right to bear so much more and that's and that's really I think the it's it's it's the it's it's the question it's the kind of question inquiry that most Seekers really don't go into very deeply before they enter into you know serious spiritual commitments and so many people that I that I meet haven't really looked into this question even though they may have been involved with spiritual practice for many years had many spiritual experiences but you really but what really is the most important important and they haven't really wrestled with it and that's why they haven't found the strength to persevere and to face whatever it is that needs to be faced and let go whatever it needs to be let go of and all the rest of it but we have no doubt what's most important we don't lose our way and if we do it it'll it'll just be a very for very short time you see and this is really the whole the foundation I think of I think the foundation of real spiritual practice has to rest on on this kind of inquiry you know and uh and the thing if one feels that one has already done that then the then the result of that kind of inquiry would would would would be a very elevated condition automatically and if that's not the case then one hasn't really one hasn't really answered those questions they're not these are not just intellectual questions but we have to ask ourselves these questions as if our life depended on it as if our very future depended on it literally you know because if we just sit back intellectually you know have a cigarette or whatever a beer and yeah very interesting so what is the and then just go back home you know and just live the same rotten life or whatever it is it's just it's a it's a game you know it's just a big game and uh and people who are quite intelligent can do that very easily you know because people who are very intelligent can entertain themselves with their own ability to to think uh yeah to think really I guess what you're saying is that if I really want to know then nothing's going to stop me yes and even say going crazy if that's how it feels that's right right that's right that's right and and um in a sense in a sense one has to be one has to be willing to go crazy to be free because believe me we are all tested in every moment okay but most people aren't aware of that they're notare they're not aware of the fact that they're being tested but the but the more you wake up the the more the more one realizes that the this is true I'm being tested in every moment and uh the more sane that you truly become because we live in a in a in an insane World okay I know what I'm saying sounds extreme but to some people it might sound extreme but from from my point of view it doesn't sound so extreme okay but so if we live in an insane world if if that's true then imagine what it would like if you what it would be like if you became truly insane you would be seen as being insane and if everybody thought you were insane you might actually begin to think so yourself and even feel like you were what if what if everybody was saying you know that this was for example a flower and you said but it's a glass he said and everybody said no it's a flower you said it's a glass right and they kept saying it was a flower and kept looking say no it's a glass then there's a question either you're crazy or they're crazy so the solution to finding out the answer to that question is is by BEC becoming very sure what that is and it and such and and what and it could even be possible that maybe you'd be the only one who' be actually being who's recognizing that to be a glass and everybody else would see it as a flower right so does does consensus you know is is consensus you know the the you know you know what determines sanity or Madness in an insane world not [Music] necessarily so you do have to be willing to go mad absolutely of course we don't want to go M okay so may oh okay last question then yeah going to be a good one okay hi Andrew um you talked earlier about being insecure are very insecure and also about there being nothing but trust and I was wondering if you could say more about that about what are you talking about those um happening simultaneously there being nothing but trust and also um uh bearing a lot of insecurity you can't have one without the other really can you well it seems if you're um but but no it's a good question you asked but if you look it's very interesting to see you can't have one without the other because if there's no trace of insecurity whatsoever trust doesn't exist so the answer is yeah you can't have one without the other but having both and having neither ultimately have the same result well it seems to me that if I'm completely insecure that it's very difficult to have complete you know have to to experience nothing but trust because yes of course it's like the insecurity is very yeah right overwhelming right right but the point is of course you see because as I as I said tonight we're speaking about being human beings we're not speaking about being gods we're not speak speaking about being a I heard angels are very big in London right sorry but anyway no I'm not really but I'm not speaking about being Angels or anything else I'm thinking about being fully embodied human beings so any uh so part of being fully human means we're also going to experience all kinds of things no matter who we are including insecurity okay but obviously it's our relationship to the experience of insecurity not the fact of the experience itself that determines whether we're free or not right because you see we need to we need to we need to have a view or a perspective a spiritual View and perspective that's able to embrace uh every as every aspect of what it means to be fully human right because when we have a teaching you know spiritual teaching that doesn't fully embrace our Humanity uh then then in the result there's going to be some kind of avoidance or denial of our humanity and the result will ultimately be be be corrupted distorted understand what I'm saying so we need a teaching that's going to be able to embrace every aspect of what it means to be fully human and show us the way to embrace every aspect of what it means to be fully human without needing to avoid or deny any of it uh that will enable us to be truly free completely free very much fully in the midst of this very Human Experience called our own life you understand what I'm saying it's the whole point so the insecurity in this in the sense that we're speaking about is not the problem you see because I said what if there's an experience of insecurity if you want to just escape from it or get away from it we're going to miss the emptiness right we're going to miss the emptiness and of course the emptiness is where is where is where liation is found the insecurity in and of itself is is is is is not is not the enemy it can actually it can actually be a great [Laughter] friend I'm still having difficulty grasping how insecurity and Trust can the kind of trust you're talking about can exist okay well it's just very simple it means that it's okay then look let's say one is experiencing insecurity right either it's okay okay or it's not if it's not okay there's going to be trouble if it is okay there's not going to be any trouble that it's really that simple either it's okay or it's not okay if it's not okay then there going to be trouble and and if it is okay there's not going to be any trouble okay so because what do we insecurity okay let's make it worth let's say is lust let's make it a little bit more down and dirty let's say this lust well if if it's let's say let's say it's not okay what are we going to do are we going to run you know to confession or what what are we going to do it's not okay what are we going to do blow our brains out you know try to burn you know try to uh you know pour gasoline all over you know our hor you know the morbid flesh and rid oursel of of it once and for all if it's not okay what are we going to do if it is okay let's say there's Lust For example and it is okay then it doesn't need to be a problem okay or there fear which is what is which is what everybody almost most people can't really deal with effectively or know how to have any relationship with it that expresses true sanity what if we're frightened and it's not okay what are we going to do we're usually going to wreak havoc because people are frightened you know they commit murder and if they don't literally commit murder they you know they they they they're willing to do awful barbaric things to each other that are not always necessarily physical okay because they're frightened so if we're frightened and it's not okay the result is going to be the misery and horror of the world we're living in but if what if we were frightened and it was okay you see what I'm saying so that's really so I think that really answers your question it's just you're saying it's just question of deciding that it's okay I can really deciding it I mean like well but it's a it's a pretty big decision it's kind of like it's bigger than getting married right that's one of those oh my God is it should I know should I or shouldn't I this is a big this is a big one that mean I'm I'm gonna have to spend the rest of my life with that person oh my God I don't know so no it's a much bigger decision than if you than than that that's very ptry compared to what I'm speaking about I think what I mean is that in when you're feeling insecure it's choosing to say to see if that's okay that's true that's true but in relationship since since I am speaking about Enlightenment I'm not I'm not speaking about therapy okay so so a therapeutic or small-minded that's my particular interpretation of it the therapeutic or small-minded inter interpretation of what I said tonight would be I'm feeling insecure Andrew said it's okay oh it's okay it's okay and then you just tell yourself it's okay yeah and then you survive you know the the current kind of you know upheaval you know and then it goes away and say he was right it's okay you know but that kind of thing but then it's just used it's used it's used in in a sense to pacify one okay that's not what I'm speaking about I'm speaking about you know literally as I said before you know jumping out of the plane without the parachute so and jumping out of the plane without a parachute is a metaphor for our relationship to life our own personal relationships our own personal life okay so obviously jumping out of a plane without a parachute and having nowhere to land is a metaphor for being completely free and totally unattached right the Ecstasy of it you're just simply free falling right and at the same time you one's fully here fully here fully here your full one at the same time one is fully fully here now it's that Free Falling that makes it possible to be fully here it it's that Free Falling that makes being fully here not a problem and in no way a um um and and in no way uh an interference with you know with the falling itself okay so part of being fully here might be lust fear insecurity Etc see what I mean so the Free Falling is a is is is a metaphor for for for Freedom so the only way the only way to to to realize a condition where where insecurity is no longer going to be able to rule you know rule or you know rule one's life or or no longer be able to intimidate would will would would be uh would be after one had jumped out of that plane because it's the Free Falling itself that enables one to not be intimidated is that it's the Free Falling itself that enables one no not to be intimidated because if because listen if you've already let go what can happen so would that mean that you'd have to be in an En condition in order to be that Free Falling would be some sort of in order to not be intimidated by yes in order not to be intimidated to the degree that that insecurity would in no way inhibit one's on perfect Liberation and and the in the expression and manifestation of it definitely that's the whole point so are there other degrees are you is that what you're saying that there other degrees you saying it's black just that it's why why be busy with degrees anyway well not because you said degree I just wondering oh because okay maybe I did but don't be concerned with it you just want to be concerned with going all the way in the shortest amount of time possible because you we one has to one has an extraordinary Life to Live what I was trying to understand is if um the the relationship to insecurity you're talking about is only possible if you're in that state of free fall right um so that's yeah right it's that's right right so if you're not in that state of free fall then well then one's going to make a mess of it does that mean that it's not something that you attempt to do then it's not something to take that sort of relationship to insecurity because then that's the moreap we we we hopefully and I don't want I can only speak for myself but hopefully we all want to do we all want to do very well don't we huh yeah don't we all want to die knowing that we gave everything that we gave everything and that there was nothing left undone nothing left to over to become and nothing left to overcome it's all finished it's all over it's all finished it's all over nothing is unfinished nothing's unfinished nothing's unfinished you see that's that's isn't that how we want to die huh so not only is that how we want to die but that's how we want to live because unless we unless we can live that way we'll never be free right good so maybe we'll just sitay quietly for just a couple minutes together