Beyond the mythic Guru

and you how does the music guru then evolved into postmodern and post postmodern culture what is needed so that the good still can be preserved and so when we're speaking about the mythic guru I suppose where were giving the benefit of the doubt that such an individual actually has experienced a very deep awakening and is stabilized in that awakening yeah well the that means that the intent individual has to embrace the reality of cultural evolution and endeavor to go in that journey from from a mythic interpretation and contextualisation of enlightenment to modern into a postmodern one and beyond and it's important to understand that this territory has yet to be defined there is no there is there is no cleared or shared agreements but what enlightenment looks like outside of a mythic context there's a lot of different speculation and a lot of people have different opinions about it but there's no shared agreement so we have to realize that this is territory that is yet to be defined but I think that the the first thing we have to do is as we go on this journey is to realize that there's a difference between the perfection inherent and enlightened awareness they're words it's possible to know that which is perfect in a non relative or absolute context it's quite possible to know that which is perfect possible to know perfection but it's not possible to be that perfection as a manifest sentient being so a big part of this shift has to do with being clear about the difference between the perfection of a higher state of consciousness and the hearing and perfection of being human and learn how to hold that paradox in oneself and know how to hold one hold that paradox in relationship to the way we see other people especially realized people because unfortunately if we have become cynical about enlightenment because we feel that too many apparently enlightened people have behaved in less than perfect ways a lot of people have decided to go out throughout the through baby with the bathwater and decide that enlightenment doesn't mean anything or even doesn't really exist and that's not true so the most important thing we need to do is learn how to hold the paradox between the perfection that's possible to know in the state of enlightened awareness and the reality of the fact that no human being is capable of manifesting perfection in and through their humanity but if they're truly awake if they're if they're profoundly awake they can transmit that perfection that perfection can come through them that's a state experience but that doesn't make them as human beings perfect so when you experience a state of perfection coming through an imperfect human being it can tend to can to create the sense that such human being must be inherently perfect but but a big part of it but if we can all grow to understand that no human beings are ever perfect or their hair are inherently importantly we will learn to hold the paradox and not to mistake the individual with the state of consciousness that they're transmitting and I think it's very important as we as as we is this process evolved so that we [Music] gain an appreciation for the challenge of higher human development in other words not that many people try to gently try to evolve in a serious way for long periods of time I mean off people will devote themselves to some kind of developmental process for a certain period of time usually give up on it or lose touch with another come or lose context but you know the evolution of the evolution of consciousness and evolution of our humanity especially as we as we as we endeavor to consciously evolve is a is a heroic effort it's heroic task it requires an enormous amount of courage and dedication and commitment over over lifetimes so I think we have to we have to be I've learned to be less ready to judge other people in terms of what one could perceive of their imperfections because if one to the degree that one is struggling oneself to become a better person to become a more conscious person we actually understand what a challenge it really is how hard it really is not only to be experiences of our consciousness but could to consistently develop to consistently be busy with the process of our own our development and the degree to which we're actually busy with that or in a way consider deep humility about the enormity of the task at hand and I think that that kind of understanding kind of that kind of under understand your kind of appreciation to the what a challenge it is not only to awaken but to put this did not only just to awaken to stay awake but also to make the effort to continue to grow and what that actually evolves it awakens a sense of genuine humility humility humility in relationship to to the entire process so yeah and we have to also so the seeker the student has to outgrow the need to want to see the realizer the realized one as the perfect parent we have to we have to outgrow that need to see anybody as a perfect parent there's a lot of people and involvement spiritual process has seems to have a need to dfi a realizer in order to feel the presence of that perfect parent in their life that ultimately has to be outgrown and given up which requires a lot of courage and realizer depending of course on how realize they actually are has to transcend the need if such a need exists to be seen as being perfect because a lot of powerfully realized people have chef shadows and though she and Sun and and one of those shadows has to do - has to do with the need to want to be seen as being some kind of flawless expression of about humanity yeah but let me ask you a provocative question I don't think that in the in the integral scene in the post and post postmodern scene what you just described is is the biggest challenge nobody sees anybody else as the perfect human being and that that's part of the problem because nobody almost nobody accepts Authority so I see the bigger problem in in the sense that hierarchy is not accepted and not that people see each other as perfect or not so when when you talk to integral people what what how do we get out of this sentiment that I don't need a teacher anymore because I'm on my own path and I have learned to have to listen to myself and that's it I don't know how we get out I don't know how we get out of that I mean I I don't know how we get out of it it's just it's so soon it's so because the point is that this flat pluralism is like a swamp and I think I think at a certain I don't know how I don't know how we get out of it I think it's going to be dependent upon individuals who have who wake up and recognize that they're in a fleur allistic swamp in which verticality has been decimated and that those rare individuals are gonna have to gonna have to pull them to what are gonna have to make their raw effort to pull himself out of that pluralistic flat swamp and start to pave the way for something for something for verticality and and to reignite a context where actual developmental differences are gonna be honored and recognized and acknowledged positively but we're very far away from that I don't know how long it's gonna take it looks very difficult right now because the because he lets the ego off the hook it makes it lets the ego feel this is no problem so what is it so you the question you ask me is we're all so full of ourselves who's also arrogant we're also deluded about how much we think we know and how great we think we are and how important we think we are then what is it gonna take to wake us up I don't know you usually would wake people up is terrible calamities I mean yeah I know what else to do what else I can do but I find I find a lot of this very discouraging it's it's very discouraging and it's very disheartening and I see yeah the baby getting thrown out with the bathwater too much of the time and and and this this has happened because there's been the shocking discovery that too many realizers are less than perfect to say the least and I think a lot of people can't hold this paradox and a lot of the realizers don't want to be seen as being less than perfect and so this creates a very complex and problematic situation but I think it can't be solved if there can be if there's a I truly evolutionarily awakened realize her who no longer needs to play the game of wanting to be seen as perfect and if he if he's working with students that are embracing a rare level of and autonomy then why they want to work in a serious way in which everybody can develop in a truly integrally informed spiritual context then I think something new could really emerge and that's what I'm personally very very interested in giving rise to I'm very interested in